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StackOverflow and GitHub: Associations Between Software Development and Crowdsourced Knowledge

Apa itu StackOverflow dan GitHub? Apa hubungan antara pengembangan perangkat lunak dan pengetahuan kolaboratif? StackOverflow adalah komunitas Tanya Jawab pemrograman online populer yang memungkinkan peserta mengakses pengetahuan dan pengalaman rekan-rekan mereka dengan cepat, yang sangat berguna bagi programmer. Terlepas dari popularitas StackOverflow, perannya dalam siklus kerja pengembang sumber terbuka masih belum diketahui? Di satu sisi, partisipasi menawarkan potensi untuk memperluas pengetahuan masing-masing pengembang, sehingga meningkatkan dan mempercepat proses pembangunan. Di sisi lain, berpartisipasi dalam StackOverflow akan mengganggu ritme kerja normal pengembang dan memperlambat proses pengembangan. Dalam artikel ini, kami memeriksa interaksi antara aktivitas Stack Overflow dan proses pengembangan sebagaimana tercermin dalam perubahan kode yang dibuat di GitHub, repositori kode sosial terbesar. Penelitian kami menunjukkan bahwa pengguna aktif GitHub mengajukan lebih sedikit pertanyaan dan memberikan lebih banyak jawaban dibandingkan pengguna lain. Selain itu, kami mengamati bahwa penulis pertanyaan StackOverflow yang aktif memiliki distribusi pekerjaan yang lebih tidak merata dibandingkan pengembang yang tidak mengajukan pertanyaan. Terakhir, kami menunjukkan bahwa meskipun terjadi pemadaman, tingkat aktivitas StackOverflow masih berkorelasi dengan aktivitas perubahan kode di GitHub.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami bahwa pengembang membuat dan memelihara perangkat lunak dengan membantu orang lain? Mereka menggunakan kembali komponen dan perpustakaan dan mencari informasi di Internet untuk membantu mereka menyelesaikan tugas mereka [2]. Untuk mendapatkan bantuan dengan kode mereka, pengembang sering kali beralih ke komunitas tanya jawab (Q&A) pemrograman, khususnya StackOverflow1 (SO) [3]. Apa itu? Untuk mendorong peserta berkontribusi lebih banyak, StackOverflow menggunakan gamifikasi[4]? Voting mencerminkan reputasi individu dan dapat dilihat sebagai ukuran pengalaman perekrut potensial [5], dan pengguna diketahui lebih termotivasi. Dorong mereka untuk berkontribusi [4]. Dengan mengajukan pertanyaan di StackOverflow, pengembang bisa mendapatkan bantuan dan saran dari rekan kerja, seperti cuplikan kode mereka sendiri atau fitur teknis yang tidak terdokumentasi [6]. Dengan menjawab pertanyaan orang lain, pengembang dapat berbagi pengetahuan dan pengalaman, membantu dan mendidik orang lain, atau bersaing untuk mendapatkan posisi lebih tinggi dalam game. 1http?//stackoverflow.com Analogi StackOverflow sebagai lembaga pendidikan yang efektif telah terbukti. Selain manfaat langsung, dampak pendidikan secara keseluruhan adalah mempercepat atau mendorong kemajuan sosial.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami bahwa StackOverflow memiliki dampak yang sama terhadap komunitas pengembangan perangkat lunak? Hubungan antara produktivitas pengembang dan penggunaan StackOverflow tidak jelas. Di satu sisi, StackOverflow dikenal menyediakan solusi teknis yang baik [6] dan menerapkannya dengan cepat [3], sehingga integrasi yang lebih erat antara situs Tanya Jawab dan IDE modern kini direkomendasikan [7]. Di sisi lain, penggunaan Stack Overflow sebagai proxy jaringan sosial dapat menyebabkan gangguan yang berdampak pada kinerja pengembang [1], terutama jika mempertimbangkan gamifikasi. Dalam artikel ini, kita mengeksplorasi interaksi antara bertanya dan menjawab pertanyaan di StackOverflow dan membuat perubahan pada repositori GitHub2 sumber terbuka. GitHub bisa dibilang merupakan situs web pengkodean sosial terbesar [9], menampung lebih dari 3 juta proyek perangkat lunak dan dikelola oleh lebih dari 1 juta pengembang terdaftar. Apakah terdapat tumpang tindih antara kedua platform ini dalam ekosistem berbagi pengetahuan? Pengembang GitHub dapat beralih ke StackOverflow untuk mendapatkan bantuan memecahkan tantangan teknis mereka. Demikian pula, mereka dapat berpartisipasi dalam StackOverflow untuk memenuhi kebutuhan pengetahuan orang lain yang mungkin tidak berpengalaman seperti mereka. Dengan mengidentifikasi pengguna GitHub yang aktif di Stack Overflow dan memeriksa aktivitas mereka di kedua platform, kami dapat memahami apakah ada hubungan antara keterlibatan mereka di StackOverflow dan produktivitas mereka di GitHub. Apa itu? Objektif? Apakah partisipasi dalam StackOverflow terkait dengan produktivitas pengembang GitHub? Menurut Adams dkk.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa kita hanya menganalisis satu aspek yang mewakili produktivitas pengembang? Jumlah komitmen yang dibuat oleh pengembang dalam jangka waktu tertentu. Tentu saja, jangka waktu dan kualitas komitmen dapat berbeda-beda, sehingga jumlah komitmen tidak cukup untuk mengukur keseluruhan kontribusi pengembang terhadap proyek atau bahkan untuk menghitung konsumsi energi dalam prosesnya. Namun, ini adalah representasi atau pilihan aktivitas khas yang dilakukan pengembang saat mengerjakan proyek. 2http?//github.com Karena hubungan yang kompleks lebih mudah dipahami dari berbagai perspektif dan resolusi, kami memeriksa hubungan antara StackOverflow dan GitHub pada tiga tingkat berbeda. Pada tingkat makro, kami menganalisis aktivitas waktu agregat (total) (pertanyaan, jawaban, dan komitmen) di kedua platform oleh pengembang yang aktif di kedua platform. Pada tingkat ini, kami berharap dapat mengidentifikasi perbedaan dalam partisipasi kontributor GitHub di StackOverflow dan memahami apakah kelompok pengembang tertentu mendapat manfaat lebih banyak dari partisipasi dalam SO dibandingkan kelompok pengembang lainnya. Faktanya, pengguna GitHub mencakup programmer pemula dan profesional [11]. Meskipun perilaku mencari makan diketahui umum terjadi antara pemula dan ahli [2], kebiasaan makan mereka berbeda [12], yang mungkin memiliki efek berbeda pada kinerja mereka.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami: Demikian pula, peran yang berbeda dapat diidentifikasi berdasarkan kuantitas dan kualitas pertanyaan, jawaban, dan komentar dari peserta StackOverflow [13]. Namun, kedua platform hanya menggunakan informasi tentang aktivitas kontributor dalam setiap platform untuk mengidentifikasi peran. Kami ingin memahami bagaimana kelompok pengembang ini terhubung di seluruh platform dan sejauh mana aktivitas (keterampilan) di satu platform dapat digunakan sebagai pengganti aktivitas (keterampilan) di platform lain. Hubungan ini penting, misalnya, ketika menilai keandalan isyarat sosial untuk kemajuan karir [5]. Pertanyaan 1? (Tingkat makro) Bagaimana semua aktivitas pengembang di kedua platform terkait? Misalnya, apakah mitra GitHub lebih proaktif ketika menghadapi masalah sistem operasi? Apakah responden aktif lebih terlibat? Pada tingkat menengah, kami mencoba menangkap distribusi unit kerja dari waktu ke waktu dan membandingkannya dengan keterlibatan komunitas di StackOverflow. Kami tertarik untuk memahami bagaimana pengembang mengatur waktu mereka berdasarkan jumlah aktivitas Tanya Jawab. Apakah kelompok pengembang yang berbeda memiliki produktivitas yang berbeda (misalnya, penanggap OS yang aktif mungkin lebih berpengalaman tetapi cara kerjanya berbeda dibandingkan penanggap OS yang kurang aktif)? Semburan aktivitas yang intens dan periode tidak aktif yang lama menunjukkan perhatian yang terfokus pada waktu-waktu tertentu, sedangkan distribusi interval waktu antar aktivitas yang lebih merata menunjukkan kecepatan kerja yang lebih konsisten tetapi kurangnya perhatian pada waktu-waktu tertentu. Ini dibagi menjadi dua platform. Diketahui bahwa ritme kerja pengembang mempengaruhi kualitas perangkat lunak [14].

Mengapa kita perlu mengenal diri kita sendiri secara mendalam untuk menjawab pertanyaan penelitian berikut? Apakah pola penerapan (pekerjaan) pengembang paling aktif di SO (Medium) di GitHub berbeda dengan pola penerapan pengembang paling tidak aktif di StackOverflow? Terakhir, pada tingkat mikro, kami menghubungkan komitmen GitHub dengan pertanyaan dan jawaban StackOverflow dari waktu ke waktu. Kami ingin melihat apakah aktivitas di kedua platform menunjukkan tanda-tanda koordinasi, yaitu apakah laju pertanyaan yang diajukan atau dijawab di SO berkorelasi dengan laju aktivitas penerapan di GitHub. Tolong beritahu saya secara spesifik? PI3? (Tingkat mikro) Apakah terdapat interaksi atau koordinasi fungsional antara kegiatan partisipasi dan kegiatan informasi? Artinya, apakah mereka akan lebih sering muncul ketika waktu tanya jawab semakin dekat? Bagaimana jika tidak? Sisa dokumen ini disusun sebagai berikut. Setelah membahas pekerjaan terkait di Bagian 2, kami membahas cara memperoleh dan menyiapkan data di Bagian 3. Kami membedakan antara tampilan makro (misalnya, apakah pengguna GitHub reguler juga merupakan pengguna StackOverflow?) dan tampilan perantara (misalnya, bagaimana aktivitas StackOverflow memengaruhi produktivitas pengembang). ? ) dan mempublikasikan microviews (misalnya Stack Overflow - dapatkah Anda menemukan peristiwa yang terjadi bersamaan dengan GitHub?)))? ) dan dibahas pada Bagian IV, V dan VI. Terakhir, di Bagian VII, kami merangkum kontribusi kami dan menguraikan arah penelitian di masa depan. 2. Apa yang dimaksud dengan pekerjaan terkait? Banyaknya informasi yang dibagikan pengembang melalui media sosial mengubah cara mereka berkolaborasi, berkomunikasi, dan belajar [1], [5], [11] dan pada akhirnya cara mereka mengembangkan perangkat lunak untuk pengembangan Create.

StackOverflow dikenal mencakup berbagai topik rekayasa perangkat lunak dan menarik banyak pengembang perangkat lunak. Popularitas Stack Overflow di kalangan pengembang perangkat lunak juga meningkatkan minat komunitas riset [15]. Namun, dampak StackOverflow terhadap produktivitas masih belum jelas. Di satu sisi, beberapa orang percaya bahwa berpartisipasi dalam StackOverflow dapat mengganggu dan mempengaruhi kinerja pengembang [1]. Faktanya, Bacelli dkk. [7] dan Cordeiro dkk. [8] berpendapat bahwa kurangnya integrasi antara situs Q&A dan IDE modern memaksa pengembang untuk memutus arus dan mengubah konteks setiap kali mereka perlu mengerjakan sesuatu, sehingga menunda aktivitas mereka. Xuan dkk.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa aktivitas komunikasi sosial (seperti menanyakan atau menjawab pertanyaan StackOverflow) menunda aktivitas pemrograman karena bersaing untuk mendapatkan sumber daya waktu pengembang? Faktanya, “banyaknya informasi menyebabkan kurangnya perhatian dan kebutuhan untuk mendistribusikan informasi secara efektif di antara banyak sumber informasi yang tersedia” [17]. Di sisi lain, berpartisipasi dalam StackOverflow dapat mempercepat aktivitas pengembangan dengan memberikan solusi cepat terhadap tantangan teknis, sehingga menghemat waktu berharga pengembang. Apa itu Mamykina dkk? [3] menunjukkan bahwa sebagian besar pertanyaan StackOverflow dijawab rata-rata dalam 11 menit. Panin dkk. [6] berpendapat bahwa StackOverflow adalah sumber yang lebih baik untuk dokumentasi API, sementara Brandt et al. [2] mengusulkan agar pengembang dapat mengandalkan informasi dan cuplikan kode sumber di Web untuk menyebarkan pengetahuan mereka secara lebih efektif dan dengan demikian mencurahkan lebih banyak energi untuk tugas-tugas tingkat yang lebih tinggi.

Alasan Selain itu, berpartisipasi dalam StackOverflow dan mengembangkan perangkat lunak di repositori GitHub publik juga dapat dianggap sebagai aktivitas sosial. StackOverflow mengevaluasi kontribusi peserta berdasarkan poin reputasi dan lencana, memberi mereka akses ke fitur baru dan kontrol lebih besar terhadap kontribusi orang lain. Dengan cara ini, StackOverflow mendorong semua pengguna di persimpangan GitHub dan StackOverflow untuk berpartisipasi aktif dalam StackOverflow dengan mengajukan atau menjawab pertanyaan secara bersamaan. Oleh karena itu kami meminta pengguna untuk tetap aktif di kedua platform. Oleh karena itu, kami menyaring pengguna yang tidak memposting, mengajukan pertanyaan, atau menjawab pertanyaan antara Juli 2011 dan April 2012. Hal ini semakin mengurangi ukuran kumpulan data persimpangan menjadi 46.967 pengguna. (atau 11,8% dari kumpulan data GitHub). Empat. Tampilan Makro Untuk memeriksa bagaimana penerapan GitHub mencerminkan aktivitas StackOverflow, pertama-tama kami membuat tampilan makro dan memeriksa distribusi jumlah peristiwa dari setiap jenis (C untuk penerapan, Q untuk pertanyaan, dan A untuk jawaban). Untuk setiap pasangan jenis peristiwa yang diurutkan (misalnya (C, Q)), kami mengurutkan data berdasarkan satu dimensi (misalnya C), mengelompokkan berdasarkan dimensi lain (misalnya Q), dan membandingkan distribusi yang dihasilkan.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui manfaat melakukan eksperimen yang membagi kelompok menjadi kuartil dan desil? Namun, kami hanya melaporkan hasil kuartil karena membaginya dengan desil menghasilkan hasil yang serupa. Pendekatan “pisahkan dan bandingkan” ini lebih unggul daripada metode statistik tradisional untuk membandingkan korelasi, seperti koefisien korelasi dan model regresi, karena pendekatan ini hanya dapat mendeteksi hubungan yang monoton (misalnya, “Sejumlah besar komitmen sama dengan sejumlah besar komitmen”). . ). “Lebih banyak pertanyaan dan lebih sedikit konfirmasi berarti lebih sedikit pertanyaan” atau “Lebih banyak konfirmasi berarti lebih sedikit jawaban dan sebaliknya”). Metode pemisahan dan perbandingan () bila digunakan dengan prosedur uji statistik yang sesuai. (Lihat di bawah) Hubungan yang tidak monoton juga dapat diidentifikasi (misalnya, “Angka komitmen yang lebih tinggi dan lebih rendah dikaitkan dengan lebih banyak masalah, permintaan tidak terlalu tinggi atau terlalu rendah, sehingga permintaan tidak rendah”). Uji hubungan antara setiap pasangan kelompok. Langkah pertama biasanya dilakukan dengan ANOVA atau mitra nonparametriknya (ANOVA Kruskal-Wallis berdasarkan peringkat satu faktor), dan langkah kedua dilakukan dengan ANOVA berdasarkan uji Wilcoxon-Mann-Whitney. Sayangnya, hipotesis nol dapat ditolak di semua pengujian tanpa menolak semua subhipotesis dan sebaliknya [23].

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa studi simulasi menunjukkan bahwa uji Wilcoxon-Mann-Whitney tidak kuat terhadap varians populasi yang tidak setara, terutama ketika ukuran sampel tidak sama? Jadi apakah pendekatan satu tahap lebih baik? Pendekatan ini harus menghasilkan interval kepercayaan yang secara konsisten menghasilkan keputusan pengujian yang sama di beberapa perbandingan. Untuk tujuan ini, kami menerapkan metode pengujian kontras ganda yang baru-baru ini diusulkan Te [25], menggunakan tingkat kesalahan tradisional sebesar 5%. T_ mewakili varians populasi, yang kuat terhadap ketimpangan dan dapat diterapkan pada berbagai jenis pengujian, termasuk perbandingan semua pasangan distribusi, yang disebut uji Tukey. Untuk perbandingan Tukey, kami merangkum hasil T menggunakan T-chart [22]. Dalam grafik asiklik berarah seperti itu, node berhubungan dengan kelompok berbeda yang dibandingkan, dan tepi berhubungan dengan hasil perbandingan berpasangan. A memiliki keunggulan dibandingkan B jika A cenderung memiliki nilai lebih tinggi daripada B untuk metrik tertentu (yaitu Te melaporkan p <0,05 untuk perbandingan AB). Karena T~ menghormati transitivitas, kita menghilangkan sisi langsung B antara A dan B jika jalur dari A ke B melewati setidaknya satu titik lain pada grafik T.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami contoh pada Gambar 2: T-Chart yang merangkum hasil proses T yang diterapkan pada empat himpunan nilai A, B, C, dan D? Nilai D cenderung lebih tinggi dibandingkan nilai B dan C, namun lebih rendah dibandingkan TO. A cenderung memiliki nilai lebih tinggi dibandingkan semua kelompok lainnya (D Direct, B dan C Pass-Through). B. Ternyata orang hebat juga pandai bertanya? ? Setelah mengurutkan data berdasarkan dimensi C dalam urutan menurun, kami membagi dimensi Q menjadi kuartil dan membandingkan kelompok yang dihasilkan secara berpasangan. Hasilnya (Gambar 3a) menunjukkan bahwa 25% peserta yang paling aktif (Q1) menanyakan lebih sedikit pertanyaan tentang StackOverflow dibandingkan kuartil lainnya, namun terdapat sedikit perbedaan dalam aktivitas Q antara Q2, Q3, dan Q4, yang menunjukkan aktivitas yang lebih tinggi. Apakah peserta GitHub adalah pengembang berpengalaman yang tidak memerlukan banyak saran teknis? Mereka berkontribusi banyak pada StackOverflow tanpa banyak bantuan. Host GitHub aktif menanyakan lebih sedikit pertanyaan tentang StackOverflow dibandingkan host lainnya. Apakah orang yang berkinerja tinggi juga merupakan orang yang memberikan respons yang tinggi? ? Setelah mengurutkan data dalam urutan menurun berdasarkan dimensi C, kami membagi dimensi A menjadi kuartil dan membandingkan kelompok yang dihasilkan secara berpasangan. Hasilnya (Gambar 3b) menunjukkan urutan yang sempurna? Peserta yang paling aktif memberikan lebih banyak jawaban (misalnya pengembang menjawab lebih banyak pertanyaan di Q2 dibandingkan Q3 atau Q4, namun lebih sedikit dibandingkan Q1).

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui aktivitas GitHub dapat dilihat sebagai indikator kesediaan seseorang untuk menjawab pertanyaan teknis tentang StackOverflow atau tingkat pengalamannya. Ketika dianalisis lebih lanjut dalam konteks gamifikasi, apakah hasil ini menunjukkan bahwa pengguna utama StackOverflow adalah “superstar” dan bukan “pengintai” [26]? Mereka tidak hanya bersaing untuk mendapatkan reputasi dan lencana, namun mereka sebenarnya adalah pengembang perangkat lunak yang aktif. Pengelola GitHub paling aktif di StackOverflow memberikan jawaban lebih lanjut. Apakah orang yang banyak bertanya juga termasuk orang yang berkinerja tinggi? ? Urutkan data dalam urutan menurun sepanjang dimensi Q, bagi dimensi C menjadi kuartil, dan bandingkan hasil setiap kelompok secara berpasangan. Hasilnya (Gambar 3c) menunjukkan bahwa hubungan non-monotonik antara Q dan C tidak dapat diungkapkan dengan menggunakan teknik korelasi tradisional. Di satu sisi, pemohon yang kurang aktif (pengguna Q4 yang mengajukan lebih sedikit pertanyaan) menghasilkan lebih banyak keterlibatan dibandingkan pengguna lain. (a) Pengikut Q1 mengajukan lebih sedikit pertanyaan (b) Pengikut aktif menjawab lebih banyak pertanyaan (c) Responden Q4 mengajukan lebih banyak pertanyaan (d) Responden menanyakan lebih banyak SO dibandingkan dengan pertanyaan Q4. Sebaliknya, responden lebih aktif menulis di SO. Salah satu dari yang lain.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami Q1? Apa artinya bagi kandidat untuk lebih terlibat dalam GitHub? lainnya. Lebih banyak dibandingkan kuartal kedua. Gambar 3? Tampilan makro tingkat aktivitas pengguna aktif di GitHub dan StackOverflow [Juli 2011 hingga April 2012].

Kenapa apa apa? Apakah pengamatan ini sesuai dengan tambahan sebelumnya? Peserta yang paling aktif adalah mereka yang mengajukan pertanyaan paling sedikit. Sebaliknya responden lebih banyak melakukan aktivitas pada triwulan I (paling aktif) dibandingkan triwulan II. Hal ini menunjukkan bahwa mereka aktif belajar, menemukan jawaban atas tantangan teknis, mencoba solusi yang diusulkan, dan mendapatkan wawasan GitHub. Namun tuduhan tersebut memerlukan penyelidikan lebih lanjut.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa aktivitas yang lebih sedikit dari pihak penanya berarti bahwa penulis lebih terlibat dibandingkan yang lain? Namun apakah kandidat yang paling aktif tidak dapat dibedakan berdasarkan aktivitas keterlibatannya? Pelamar teraktif lebih aktif dibandingkan pelamar teraktif kedua. Apakah banyak dari mereka yang disurvei juga baik-baik saja? ? Setelah mengurutkan data sepanjang dimensi  dalam urutan menurun, kami membagi dimensi  menjadi kuartil dan membandingkan kelompok yang dihasilkan secara berpasangan. Hasilnya (Gambar 3d) menunjukkan proses sempurna lainnya? Responden yang lebih aktif akan lebih terlibat. Apakah pengamatan ini sesuai dengan tambahan sebelumnya? Peserta yang lebih aktif memberikan lebih banyak jawaban. Hal ini menunjukkan bahwa menjawab pertanyaan di StackOverflow dapat dipandang sebagai indikator aktivitas implementasi seseorang. Responden StackOverflow yang paling aktif mendorong lebih banyak konten ke GitHub. Abstrak? Apakah kita melihat hubungan langsung antara aktivitas penerapan GitHub dan aktivitas Tanya Jawab StackOverflow? Semakin aktif partisipan, semakin banyak jawaban yang diberikan, dan semakin aktif responden, maka penulis semakin terlibat.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami hubungan terbalik antara aktivitas penerapan GitHub dan aktivitas masalah StackOverflow? Mitra GitHub yang aktif menyebabkan lebih sedikit masalah dibandingkan mitra yang tidak aktif. Secara keseluruhan, hasil ini menunjukkan bahwa peringkat aktivitas kontributor StackOverflow mencerminkan peringkat kontribusi sumber terbuka GitHub, sehingga meningkatkan kepercayaan terhadap kredibilitas sinyal sosial berbasis OS (misalnya, banyak responden SO cenderung juga menggunakan GitHub untuk menjadi kontributor). sangat aktif). . 5. Perluas wawasan Anda. Dari perspektif makro, kita mengabaikan janji-janji, pertanyaan dan jawaban yang muncul dan perhatian kita terbatas pada beberapa peristiwa saja. Kami menyempurnakan metode ini lebih lanjut dan menambahkan informasi tentang interval waktu antara peristiwa yang berurutan. Menurut Xuan dkk. [16] Kita mendefinisikan kecepatan seseorang dalam melakukan aktivitas tertentu (bertanya, bertanya/menjawab pertanyaan), dimana kecepatan tersebut ditentukan oleh waktu interaksi? Δti = ti+1 – ti, dimana ti adalah waktu kegiatan i – contoh kegiatan menyodok (melakukan, bertanya, menjawab). Pada bagian ini kita akan fokus secara khusus pada penerapan ritme.

Mengapa ini terjadi? A. Metodologi Kami tertarik untuk memahami bagaimana pengembang mengalokasikan waktu mereka sesuai dengan komitmen mereka, yaitu apakah mereka mengikuti ritme kerja yang stabil. Untuk mengevaluasi seberapa cepat pengembang melakukan komitmen, kami menghitung indeks Gini waktu antara komitmen mereka. Indeks Gini adalah indikator ekonometrik populer untuk mempelajari ketimpangan pendapatan atau distribusi kekayaan. Hal ini sering digunakan untuk menggabungkan metrik perangkat lunak, seperti: BB, [27], [28]. Berapa kisaran nilai indeks Gini [0;1 – 1n] berdasarkan jumlah nilai yang tercatat? Indeks Gini sebesar 0 menunjukkan pemerataan waktu pengembang dibandingkan dengan komitmen pengembang. Jam kerja stabil. Irama: Indeks Gini mendekati maksimum, artinya terdapat kesenjangan yang besar antar komitmen. Karena jumlah interval antar penerapan bervariasi dari satu pengembang ke pengembang lainnya, kami menormalkan nilai indeks Gini dengan membaginya dengan 1 – 1n. Mirip dengan Bagian 4, kami membagi individu menjadi kuartil berdasarkan jumlah pertanyaan yang diajukan atau jawaban yang diberikan di StackOverflow. Kami kemudian membandingkan nilai Gini yang dinormalisasi yang dihitung dari deret waktu setiap interval penerapan GitHub untuk setiap kuartil.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui hal ini untuk memahami apakah kelompok pengembang yang berbeda memiliki tingkat produktivitas yang berbeda? Misalnya, responder StackOverflow yang aktif (lihat di atas yang juga merupakan committer aktif) mungkin memiliki lebih banyak pengalaman dibandingkan responder yang kurang aktif dan mungkin berfungsi secara berbeda. Untuk membandingkan beberapa distribusi (distribusi yang menghasilkan nilai indeks Gini untuk setiap kuartil), kami mengikuti metode yang dijelaskan pada Bagian IV-AB Hasil. Kami pertama kali menggunakan jumlah masalah sebagai dasar untuk mengelompokkan pengembang ke dalam kuartil. Namun mediannya adalah 0, artinya separuh pengembang tidak mengajukan pertanyaan dan kami tidak dapat lagi membedakan Q1 dari Q2. Jadi mari kita bandingkan nilai indeks Gini yang dinormalisasi yang tersebar dalam tiga interval waktu antara penerapan GitHub? Distribusi pada Q12 tidak menyelesaikan masalah, distribusi pada Q3 menyelesaikan masalah paling sedikit, dan distribusi pada Q3 menyelesaikan masalah paling sedikit. Distribusi Q12 Q3. Q3 memecahkan sebagian besar masalah. kuartal ketiga. kuarter keempat. Masalah ini telah teratasi. Dengan menggunakan proses Te, kami menyimpulkan bahwa penanya aktif memiliki nilai indeks Gini ternormalisasi yang lebih tinggi dibandingkan non-penanya (p = 0,013), yaitu penanya aktif menunjukkan upaya yang lebih besar. Tidak ada pengembang. Mengajukan pertanyaan.

Dengan kata lain, pengembang yang mengajukan banyak pertanyaan tentang StackOverflow akan membuat perubahan pada GitHub, pertama dengan lonjakan aktivitas dan kemudian dengan periode tidak aktif yang lebih lama dengan menargetkan momen tertentu. Spesialisasi (atau fokus) pengembang sebelumnya juga telah dicatat dalam jenis kegiatan (misalnya, pengkodean vs terjemahan) atau dokumentasi yang terkait dengan proyek publik [22], [29]. Di sisi lain, tidak ada perbedaan yang signifikan antara skor indeks Gini masyarakat, yang dinormalisasi dan dibagi menjadi kuartil berdasarkan jumlah jawaban yang mereka laporkan secara berurutan di StackOver. Jadi, mengajukan pertanyaan di StackOverflow berdampak pada cara pengembang membagi waktu mereka antara penerapan di GitHub, sementara menjawab pertanyaan tampaknya tidak memiliki efek yang sama. Pengamatan ini konsisten dengan harapan kami sebelumnya bahwa pengembang belajar dari StackOverflow dan membawa pengalaman mereka ke GitHub, dan juga konsisten dengan literatur tentang pengaruh media sosial terhadap pengembangan perangkat lunak [1], [11]. Penanya StackOverflow aktif memiliki distribusi pekerjaan yang lebih tidak merata (yaitu lebih banyak perhatian) dibandingkan pengembang yang tidak mengajukan pertanyaan. Lihat itu. Visi Mikro Sejauh ini kita mengabaikan urutan antara janji, pertanyaan, dan jawaban.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa hal tersebut masih masuk akal? Penglihatan mikroskopis memperhitungkan aspek waktu ini dengan memandang pertanyaan, pertanyaan, dan jawaban sebagai rangkaian waktu. Untuk menguji interaksi antar aktivitas, kami mengikuti pendekatan Xu et al. Metode yang direkomendasikan. [enambelas]. A. Interaksi antar aktivitas: Pertimbangkan jadwal aktivitas GitHub dan StackOverflow untuk pengembang tertentu (Gambar 4a). Misalkan A dan 13 adalah dua aktivitas yang ingin kita bandingkan (misalnya C dan Q). Untuk setiap kejadian t4i dari A, kami mengevaluasi penundaan 8Bi (diukur sebagai selisih antara t4i dan kejadian pertama dari 13 kejadian setelah t4i) dan penundaan respons ρBi (diukur sebagai selisih antara t4i+1 dan 13 kejadian terakhir). . Peristiwa). acara pertama) acara. sebelum t4i+1 (Gbr. 4b). Urutan eB dan ρB mencirikan hubungan antara A dan 13.

Mengapa? Untuk memverifikasi bahwa urutan spesifik dari 13 peristiwa ini adalah 8, kami menggunakan notasi yang sedikit berbeda dari artikel asli agar lebih mudah dibaca [16]. QQQAQA Gambar 4? Langkah-langkah untuk menghasilkan simulasi deret waktu aktivitas StackOverflow. Mungkin secara kebetulan, pengembang membuat m permutasi acak (131,...,13m) yang muncul masing-masing 9 dan 13 kali. Reorganisasi dilakukan sedemikian rupa sehingga durasi “waktu menganggur” antara dua kejadian berturut-turut dari aktivitas 13 dipertahankan, namun urutan “waktu menganggur” diacak (Gbr. 4c, d). Misalnya cB1, ... , EBm dan ρB1, ...

Oleh karena itu, ρBm adalah himpunan penundaan evaluasi dan respons 131, ..., sesuai dengan 13m (Gbr. 4e). Terakhir, kami menggabungkan semua rangkaian eB dari pengembang berbeda menjadi EB, semua ρB menjadi PB, dan seterusnya. Selanjutnya kita bandingkan EB dengan EB1,..., EBm dan PB dengan PB1,..., PBm. Namun, tidak seperti Bagian IV, kami tidak lagi tertarik pada perbandingan berpasangan antara kelompok yang berbeda, melainkan membandingkan satu distribusi (“kontrol”) dengan distribusi lain (“perlakuan”). Perbandingan jenis ini disebut perbandingan tipe Dunnett dan juga didukung oleh eT.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui bahwa kita membandingkan Te dengan Dunnett (menggunakan EB dan PB sebagai kontrol) padahal setiap rangkaian memiliki margin kesalahan tradisional sebesar 5%? • Jika A dan 13 independen, maka EB dan PB secara statistik tidak dapat dibedakan dari pengendaliannya. Teman simulasi • Jika A tertunda sebesar 13, waktu tunda statistik EB lebih lama dari waktu tunda evaluasi simulasi. Demikian pula, untuk 13 latensi, A,PB secara statistik lebih panjang dibandingkan latensi respons yang disimulasikan. • Jika A meningkatkan kecepatan sebesar 13, latensi EB secara statistik lebih rendah daripada rating yang disimulasikan. Ketika 13 A dipercepat, PB secara statistik lebih pendek daripada latensi respons yang disimulasikan. Untuk menghindari kemungkinan ketidakkonsistenan antara hasil m acak Te, kami menerapkan skema berikut. Kita mengatakan bahwa dua aktivitas tidak saling mempengaruhi (ditunjukkan dengan “tidak ada”) jika paling banyak salah satu simulasi menghasilkan perbandingan yang signifikan secara statistik. Kalau tidak, kita berbicara tentang 9. Dalam percobaan kita, kita memilih m = 10.

Alasan mengisi Formulir 2? Aktivitas StackOverflow dan interaksi dengan GitHub dimulai oleh peserta yang berbeda (dari aktivitas terendah di Q1 hingga aktivitas tertinggi di Q4). Akselerasi (deselerasi) terjadi ketika setidaknya 80% simulasi menunjukkan akselerasi (deselerasi). Dalam semua kasus lain kami mengatakan bahwa pengaruhnya tidak dapat ditentukan. Karena kami fokus pada dampak aktivitas StackOverflow (Q, A) pada penerapan GitHub (C) dan sebaliknya, kami selalu memilih penerapan GitHub sebagai salah satu aktivitas dan memodifikasi aktivitas StackOverflow secara berbeda dari aktivitas lainnya. B. Hasil Untuk memverifikasi bahwa aktivitas StackOverflow hanya memengaruhi kelompok pelaksana tertentu (misalnya, pelaksana yang sangat aktif), kami membagi pelaksana ke dalam kuartil berdasarkan jumlah total implementasinya (seperti yang dijelaskan di bagian sebelumnya). Hasil kami dirangkum dalam Tabel II. Pertama, kami mencatat bahwa hasilnya konsisten.

Mengapa kita perlu tahu  latensi sebenarnya dari separuh penghasil emisi paling aktif (Q3 dan Q4) cenderung lebih rendah daripada latensi yang disimulasikan. Hal ini menunjukkan bahwa bagi para pengembang ini, mengajukan pertanyaan dan mengajukan pertanyaan adalah saling melengkapi, dan mengajukan pertanyaan dan menjawab pertanyaan juga saling melengkapi. Bagi pelaksana aktif, mengajukan pertanyaan tentang Stack Overflow akan mendorong adopsi di GitHub. Selain itu, menjawab pertanyaan dari pemain aktif di StackOverflow dapat mempercepat penerapan di GitHub. Perbedaan serupa dapat diamati pada dampak aktivitas StackOverflow pada keterlibatan GitHub ketika pengembang paling aktif dan paling tidak aktif dikelompokkan berdasarkan berapa lama mereka berada di GitHub (bagi mereka yang telah berada di GitHub lebih lama). Efek katalitik ini lebih jelas terlihat. Waktu). Atau banyaknya pertanyaan tentang SO (katalisis lebih jelas untuk formulator aktif). Akhirnya, hasil yang sedikit berbeda diperoleh ketika mengelompokkan berdasarkan jumlah tanggapan terhadap SO (Tabel III). Saat menjawab pertanyaan, apakah hanya orang yang menjawab pertanyaan paling positif (Q4) yang diuntungkan? Menjawab pertanyaan di StackOverflow dan membuat perubahan di GitHub dapat mempercepat satu sama lain. Sebaliknya, penjawab aktif (P3 dan P4) dan pengembang yang tidak menjawab pertanyaan (penanya eksklusif atau pencari pengetahuan eksklusif; P1) mengalami kecepatan pertanyaan lebih cepat? Ada pertanyaan tentang hal ini di StackOverflow dan masalah di GitHub. Ubah kecepatan pertanyaan menjadi “Aktif”. lainnya.

Apa alasan isi Tabel 3? Interaksi antara aktivitas StackOverflow dan konten GitHub yang dikirimkan oleh responden bervariasi dari Kuartal 1 (paling tidak aktif) hingga Kuartal 4 (paling aktif). Pertanyaan dan jawaban? Dampak pada Q1: Q1 (Q1) Tidak tersedia. Q2 (Tidak Tersedia) pengguna aktif StackOverflow dan GitHub awalnya berfokus pada perbedaan partisipasi StackOverflow di antara pengembang GitHub (RQ1). Orang yang mengajukan lebih sedikit pertanyaan cenderung menunjukkan tingkat keterlibatan yang lebih tinggi, dan orang yang lebih terlibat cenderung mengajukan lebih sedikit pertanyaan.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui apa yang terjadi selanjutnya. Orang yang cenderung menjawab banyak pertanyaan cenderung banyak memberikan janji, dan orang yang banyak berjanji cenderung menjawab banyak pertanyaan. Hal ini menunjukkan bahwa orang-orang yang sangat produktif (dalam kaitannya dengan komitmen GitHub) cenderung mengambil peran sebagai “guru” dan lebih aktif dalam memberikan jawaban daripada mengajukan pertanyaan. Selanjutnya, kami menyelidiki apakah kecepatan kerja kontributor GitHub terkait dengan aktivitas StackOverflow mereka (RQ2). Kami menemukan bahwa orang yang cenderung menjawab banyak pertanyaan memiliki distribusi pekerjaan yang lebih tidak merata dibandingkan pengembang yang tidak mengajukan pertanyaan. Tidak ada perbedaan yang diamati antara distribusi pekerjaan orang-orang yang dikelompokkan berdasarkan jumlah jawaban yang diberikan. Terakhir, kami menunjukkan bahwa aktivitas StackOverflow memiliki hubungan positif dengan pengkodean sosial di GitHub meskipun ada campur tangan pengembang aktif GitHub (RQ3). Pengamatan serupa berlaku untuk pelamar aktif dan pengguna lama GitHub. Terakhir, aktivitas StackOverflow mempercepat komitmen GitHub dari responden dan pengembang paling aktif yang belum menjawab pertanyaan.

Mengapa kami perlu mengetahuinya Kami perlu mengetahuinya untuk memperdalam pemahaman kami tentang dampak StackOverflow pada GitHub, dan kami berharap dapat memperdalam penyelidikan kami di bawah ini. Pertama, mari kita tingkatkan klasifikasi aktivitas? Kami berencana untuk membedakan antara pertanyaan dan jawaban pada berbagai topik (diwakili oleh tag Stack Overflow) dan pengiriman pada proyek yang berbeda. Tujuan kami adalah menggunakan teknik penambangan informasi untuk mengklasifikasikan pertanyaan dan jawaban berdasarkan relevansinya dengan keterlibatan tertentu. Misalnya, kita mengharapkan hubungan yang lebih kuat antara keterlibatan dan topik pertanyaan yang diajukan dibandingkan antara keterlibatan dan topik jawaban yang diberikan karena jawaban lebih relevan dengan pengetahuan umum seseorang. Melanjutkan penyelidikan kami terhadap dampak volume kueri terhadap kinerja, kami ingin memeriksa sejauh mana aspek proyek GitHub dan pengembangnya dapat menjelaskan distribusi interval waktu yang tidak merata antar penerapan. . (Termasuk aktivitas StackOverflow terkini). Untuk mengukur interpretabilitas, kami menggunakan indeks Theil [30], [31]. Selain itu, kami berencana mempelajari pengaruh tingkat keterlibatan seseorang terhadap tingkat aktivitasnya di StackOverflow. Apakah pertanyaan diajukan atau dijawab ketika tidak ada komitmen atau komitmennya terpencar-pencar? Kami juga berharap untuk memperluas studi kami tentang pandangan perantara dengan menerapkan lebih lanjut model distribusi temporal antar peristiwa [32], [33] pada data kami. Terakhir, untuk lebih memahami aktivitas gabungan StackOverflow dan GitHub, kami ingin menerapkan teknik penambangan proses yang awalnya dikembangkan untuk sistem informasi [34] dan berhasil diterapkan pada repositori perangkat lunak tradisional seperti sistem kontrol versi, email, dan pelacak bug [35] . Aplikasi.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami   fungsi pemrosesan awal data untuk mengubah pola visual menjadi pola listrik atau kumpulan data diskrit menjadi pola matematis agar data lebih sesuai untuk analisis komputer. [1] Dalam hal deteksi tepi, kami mendefinisikan bahwa suatu tepi muncul pada piksel yang dimulai dari nol jika dan hanya jika turunan negatif kedua dari suatu titik dalam domain piksel memiliki kemiringan persilangan nol dalam arah gradien yang berbeda. melihat. Piksel harus ditandai sebagai piksel tepi yang dilewati dan intensitas permukaan skala abu-abu yang mendasarinya harus diperkirakan dari piksel lingkungan sekitarnya (pengukuran ambang batas yang akurat) [2]. Oleh karena itu, dari fungsi ini kita dapat dengan mudah menghitung suatu fungsi yang terdiri dari kombinasi linier produk tensor dari turunan arah diskrit. Laporan ini berisi hasil beberapa analisis komputer dengan ukuran jendela dan fungsi intensitas yang berbeda. Penelitian ini juga akan mengusulkan kombinasi parameter optimal turunan arah orde kedua dalam pencarian tepi.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui fungsi intensitas, turunan kedua, persilangan nol, dan polinomial ortogonal sebagai kata kunci? Setiap lingkungan “T” adalah permukaan kubik, misalnya [31 (r,c)=1Co-K2r +.1V,CK ,rc4 Aec Itiort! Ki0c3(1) dimana f(r,c sepanjang gradien Ci) merupakan fungsi intensitas pada posisi (r,c). Jika turunan arah orde kedua suatu piksel sepanjang arah gradien di sekitar piksel tidak mempunyai titik potong nol dan kemiringan titik potong nol tersebut negatif, maka piksel tersebut disebut piksel tepi. Setelah memperkirakan fungsi polinomial yang mendasarinya menggunakan nilai piksel di lingkungan tersebut, kita dapat menemukan nilai turunan parsial untuk setiap lokasi di lingkungan tersebut dan menggunakan nilai tersebut dalam pencarian tepi. 2. Cocokkan data dengan polinomial ortogonal diskrit. Pertimbangkan satu set indeks simetris “R”. Jadi, untuk dua dimensi, jika jumlah elemen dalam “R” adalah N * N dan kita menggunakan teknik konstruksi properti ortogonal, kita mendapatkan persamaan d(r ,u) Za,p,,( r, L) r . (2) 1. Pendahuluan Dalam artikel ini, kami berasumsi bahwa dalam setiap konteks gambar, fungsi intensitas nada abu-abu yang mendasari 'f berbentuk polinomial parametrik dalam koordinat baris dan kolom, dan gambar fungsi ini diambil dari domain. "C" secara seragam memindai area persegi dengan grid yang berjarak sama. Jadi dengan menggunakan teknik perkalian tensor kita dapat membuat polinomial ortogonal dalam lingkungan 2D yang terdiri dari elemen 4*4 seperti yang ditunjukkan di bawah ini? [4] Pengaturan? (-1.5,-0.5,0.5,1.5) * ( - 1 , 5 , - 0.5 ,0.5,1.5) (3) 669 0- 7803-2646-u Untuk setiap (r,c) di "R", datanya nilainya adalah d(r,c).

Kenapa v-alo? Masalah fitting sebenarnya adalah menentukan koefisien yaitu =a2 – a„ –u2 U0, dimana m=0.1;2. Operasi matematika spesifik dan hasilnya adalah sebagai berikut: dari persamaan (6) lakukan analisis teoritis dan dapatkan koefisien ao -EI /Z1x1 az = Zc xd(r,c)/Ecxc az= E( c2 - 112 )d (r , c) //(c2- ) ( c ° --/1-°-) 110 u, az = Z (c3 - 121?-)d(r ,c)/1?( 03 - n4 -c )( c3- 1 - 1Ac) UU, U2 a4 = xd (r, c) /Ez xr = Iry d ( rc) I Ervx rc E(r3 - 'A) (e- xd(r, c ) uz ux Faur3 u4 u4 o IL, U dari Nalwa-Binford Technology [6], pilih K, banyaknya elemen “C” pada mask yang dapat digunakan untuk operasi integer, maka K, = a4- a, = - a" -111 + a " 1- x - Au u, K9 = a , - az, -4 2 K = a , - a " 112 " 0 Berapakah turunan dari fungsi intensitas [7] f ' ,c )= f ( r , c )sin am - f (r,c) cos a = ( K, sin a+ K3 cos a) + 2 (K4 sin' a + K , sin acos a + K , cos2 a) p+ 3 (K, sin ° acos a K, sin ° a cos a +K , sin acos' a+ K1, cos' ( Op' Jadi f" a(r, c) = 2(k4 sin° a+ K , sin a cosi ), + K , COS° cc )+ 6 (K7 sin° a+ K , sin2 acos a+ IC , sin a cos ' ' a + K10 cos ' a)pf "a (r,c)= 6 ( K, sin ' a+ K, sin2 acos a+ K, sin acos a + K " cos' a ) dan sinus( = VK2 +1( 32 r = psina ,c = pcosa dengan p adalah jarak titik dari piksel pusat. Dalam lingkungan kecil, jika f "(p) < 0, f"(p) = 0 dan f' (p)x 0 , tandai piksel tengah sebagai piksel tepi 670 4. Hasilnya ada pada Gambar 670 dan pemandangan sebenarnya dan bagian belakang laporan keuangan.

Mengapa kita perlu memahami dengan memilih parameter yang berbeda (f, f", f'") dan ukuran jendela, hasil analisis komputer ditunjukkan pada Gambar 3 hingga Gambar 8. Jika Op' adalah p, dimana p' sedikit lebih kecil dari panjang sisi piksel, yaitu ep" 'ot(p) < 0 dan f"ot(p)= oy f' ct(p) x 0, kita temukan bahwa itu harus nol. Temukan perkiraan turunan arah dari arah gradien negatif kedua, perkirakan gradiennya, dan beri label piksel tengah di sekitarnya sebagai piksel tepi. Setelah pengujian ekstensif, kami sampai pada kesimpulan berikut. (Kecuali untuk nilai skala abu-abu di dekat piksel tepi, tidak ada perbedaan nilai yang signifikan. Tepi seperti itu sulit dideteksi. (Lihat Gambar 3). (2) Penting untuk menggunakan ukuran lingkungan yang lebih besar dari 3*3 Ternyata pada 4*, penggunaan operator tepi yang besar dan terdefinisi secara alami di lingkungan ke-4 dapat menghasilkan hasil yang lebih baik daripada rata-rata sebelumnya, dan kemudian operator tepi lingkungan yang lebih kecil dapat digunakan untuk rata-rata gambar (lihat Gambar 5 dan 6) (Gambar 3) 3 dan 6). Dengan mempertimbangkan keterbatasan fungsi intensitas dan ukuran jendela yang sesuai, hasil terbaik saat mencari tepi pada gambar biner ditunjukkan pada Gambar 6.5. Referensi 1.ST Apa itu Arc? , “Pengenalan Pola,” halaman 14. 3-17. 2. Bernstein, R., “Pemrosesan Citra Digital untuk Penginderaan Jauh,” IEEE Press, New York, 1978. AR dan Riseman, eM, “Computer Vision Systems,” Academia Sinica, New York, 1978 4. P. Orthogonal Polynomial Engineer dan Fisikawan, Boulder, Inc. 5. PChen dan T.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui SOP apa saja yang berlaku dalam pengambilan dan pengolahan darah? 5. Mengawasi pengendalian kualitas dalam proses caHUB (Rencana Manajemen Mutu Dasar) Neil Mucci, Direktur • Tujuan? Mengkonsolidasikan keahlian ANTSG dalam mendukung proyek Genotyping Tissue Expression (GTEx) • Meningkatkan otopsi subjek manusia normal. Pemulihan Organisasi • Menginspirasi CaHUB dan pemangku kepentingan komunitas riset untuk berbagi praktik terbaik teknis, operasional, etika, dan hukum. • Berkolaborasi dengan SOP CaHUB yang dipimpin Ian Fore dan Kenyon Erickson. Memelihara dokumentasi. • Menentukan fungsionalitas sistem yang diperlukan. • Membuat arsitektur komputer konseptual. • Menentukan manfaat fungsional interoperabilitas. • Lihat hasil Cancer Genome Atlas (TCGA). • Mengembangkan kasus penggunaan sumber daya data terintegrasi terkait caBIGTM. • Menjawab pertanyaan kunci? Tentukan kasus penggunaan. Glosarium untuk mengelola patologi dan elemen data. • Rencana proyek dikembangkan oleh Kantor Komunikasi dan Pendidikan NCI dengan menggunakan model TCGA. • September 2010 Membuat materi web dan media kit untuk memberikan presentasi interaktif kepada khalayak luas. • Kelompok Diskusi Teknis Tahap 1 yang terdiri dari 15-19 anggota CaHUB dan operator yang disebutkan dalam makalah konferensi yang dipertimbangkan (semuanya)? 1. Oleh W. Zellinger, E. Lughofer, S. Saminger-Platz, T. Grubinger dan T.

 

Mengapa kita perlu memahami bahwa pengembang terdiri dari jaringan sosial hierarki kompleks yang membangun hubungan informasi antar unit perangkat lunak. Tren penelitian saat ini menunjukkan bahwa pengembang memiliki banyak metode berbeda yang berhasil menganalisis pertumbuhan dan evolusi struktur jaringan di jejaring sosial. Tujuannya adalah untuk memberikan gambaran singkat tentang analitik, metode dan algoritma yang digunakan dalam jaringan sosial pengembang, serta teknik dan teknik yang dapat digunakan untuk menganalisis kinerja jaringan terkait pengembang. Pengembangan jaringan pengembang sosial dan OSS, perluasan wilayah penelitian, metode dan pendekatan yang ada serta perluasan tugas dan teknik juga dibahas. Kata kunci? Pengembang Jaringan Sosial, Perangkat Lunak Sumber Terbuka, OSS, Jaringan Sosial, Struktur Komunitas, Pengembang, Proses Pemecahan Masalah, Bug*** I.

Mengapa? Apa itu? Pendahuluan SDN (Jaringan Pengembang Sosial) adalah komponen dasar jaringan entitas perangkat lunak yang mengintegrasikan beberapa entitas proyek perangkat lunak. Kelompok sosial dapat diartikan kembali sebagai SDN yang mewakili berbagai perilaku hubungan simpul tepi. Apa itu? Ini terdiri dari node (misalnya pengembang, proyek, file, penulis, pengamat, pengguna) dan tepi yang mewakili hubungan (misalnya pekerjaan, fragmen, penerapan, komentar, laporan bug, dll.). Buat grafik jaringan pengembang untuk memvisualisasikan hubungan jaringan tempat node berada. Mereka dianggap sebagai aktor inti dalam jaringan dan aktor periferal yang melaksanakan tugas. Kami melakukan analisis jaringan dengan melakukan operasi pada dataset, menjalankan algoritma, dan menampilkan aktivitas hubungan node-edge melalui representasi grafik visual. Analisis jaringan sosial menunjukkan pengukuran simpul pusat, halaman peringkat, dan pengukuran prioritas. Ada berbagai cara untuk menganalisis properti tersembunyi dari suatu jaringan. SDN telah berkembang menjadi bidang yang menarik dalam beberapa tahun terakhir.

Mengapa Kita Perlu Memahami Pengembang Analisis jaringan sosial dapat menunjukkan kepada para ahli bagaimana memahami struktur sosial dan membantu manajer pemula atau aktif mengelola aktivitas sosial mereka. Artikel kami memberikan wawasan unik tentang aktivitas Jaringan Pengembang Sosial (SDN) di masa lalu dan saat ini. Perkembangan gerakan proyek akses terbuka dimulai beberapa tahun lalu. Pertumbuhan berkelanjutan dalam aktivitas bisnis perangkat lunak menunjukkan kesuksesan finansial. Beberapa penyedia produk perangkat lunak (seperti Google dan RedHat) merupakan organisasi yang aktif mempromosikan OSS. Kategorikan platform OSS yang berbeda seperti sistem operasi (Linux), DBMS (MySQL), manajemen konten web (Zoomla dan WordPress), dan perangkat lunak perusahaan (Magento). 2 Ikhtisar jenis jaringan sosial 2.1 Jaringan sosial heterogen Jaringan sosial heterogen menyimpan informasi topologi dan informasi hubungan dan terdiri dari beberapa jenis entitas.

Mengapa seetiap node harus  diidentifikasi oleh hubungan tetangganya. Relasi adalah kombinasi node dan konektor yang terhubung secara langsung dan tidak langsung. Jejaring sosial heterogen HSN (Vertices, Edge, Label) adalah graf berarah berlabel, dimana Vertices adalah himpunan simpul berhingga, Labels adalah himpunan berhingga, dan Vertices×Label×Vertices adalah himpunan tepi berhingga [9]. Kebanyakan algoritma (misalnya analisis metapath, klasifikasi, analisis kesamaan, dan aktivitas kelompok) beroperasi terutama pada jaringan ini. 2.2 Jaringan sosial yang homogen Jaringan sosial yang homogen mengasumsikan tipe node dan hubungan tepi yang sama. Metode analisis ini seringkali mengakibatkan hilangnya informasi. Dalam jaringan sosial yang homogen, node mewakili entitas dan edge mewakili hubungan. Contoh algoritma dan metode yang tersedia, klasifikasi, pencarian kesamaan, pengelompokan dan pengelompokan aktivitas serupa, dan prediksi hubungan asosiasi. 2.3 Jejaring sosial multidimensi memiliki tipe hubungan yang berbeda-beda. Jaringan multidimensi mencakup seluruh dimensi yang membentuk asosiasi pengguna pada suatu website, seperti:

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui cara memilih Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Orkut, dll? Tang Lei dkk. [13] menghubungkan pengguna melalui berbagai aktivitas untuk membuat banyak jaringan. Siapakah Li Xutao dan lainnya? [26] Membangun hubungan komunitas dalam jaringan multidimensi dengan menghitung kesamaan antara dua elemen tubuh? Edisi 03? 04.http?//www.ijret.org 412 IJRET? Jurnal Penelitian Teknik dan Teknologi Internasional eISSN? 2319-1163|. 2321-7308 Jaringan mempunyai dimensi (entitas) yang sama atau dimensi (entitas) yang berbeda, bergantung pada distribusi probabilitas setiap dimensi atau entitas. Hasilnya menunjukkan bahwa algoritma yang dirancang efektif dan efisien. 3. SURVEI PUSTAKA Jaringan pengembang sosial telah ada selama sepuluh tahun. Dalam artikel ulasan ini, saya ingin memperkenalkan poin-poin penting penulis dan kontribusinya pada jejaring sosial untuk pengembang.

Mengapa? Apa itu? Misalnya, apakah keseluruhan survei dapat dibagi menjadi beberapa bagian? B. Deteksi struktur komunitas, lokalisasi bug, jaringan sosial pengembang dan kolaborasi perbaikan bug, serta klasifikasi bug. Komponen utama Ø Jaringan sosial dan komunitas di OSS Ø Jaringan sosial pengembang dan proses penyelesaian cacat Ø Prediksi cacat Ø Lokalisasi cacat Ø Klasifikasi cacat 3.1 Jaringan sosial dan komunitas di OSS W Scacchi [4] mempelajari struktur sosial tim pengembangan. Hubungan yang diharapkan dan kode sumber dalam perangkat lunak sumber terbuka. Perangkat lunak sumber terbuka tidak selalu mengikuti praktik rekayasa perangkat lunak tradisional, namun merupakan struktur proses sosio-teknis yang kompleks. Tanyakan Hong dkk. [1] menemukan bahwa pengembang dan hubungan mereka di jaringan sosial pengembang terus berubah dalam tim pengembangan inti. Mereka membandingkan struktur dan evolusi jejaring sosial tempat pengembang bekerja sebagai pemrogram dengan jejaring sosial umum (GSN) populer seperti Twitter, Facebook, dan Amazon. Studi mereka juga menganalisis bagaimana jaringan sosial pengembang tumbuh seiring waktu, serta dampak DSN dan pertumbuhan hubungan topologi dalam jaringan pengembang. Hasilnya memberikan bukti kuat bahwa struktur komunitas mempertahankan karakteristik global dari waktu ke waktu dan menunjukkan peningkatan bertahap dalam struktur komunitas dalam jaringan sosial pengembang.

Mengapa kita perlu mengetahui tentang Andres Germakovich dan lainnya? [11] Pendekatan visualisasi jaringan untuk pengembang perangkat lunak di repositori VCS. Mereka menghitung kesamaan antar pengembang berdasarkan perubahan pada file serupa. Buat jaringan pengembang kolaboratif dan terapkan metode pemfilteran untuk meningkatkan modularitas jaringan pengembang. Mereka memberikan bobot pada semua dokumen dan menghitung kesamaan pengembang. Zhou dkk. [12] menganalisis beberapa dimensi perubahan perangkat lunak, termasuk signifikansi perubahan atau tingkat ketergantungan pada kode sumber. Mereka memperoleh serangkaian fitur dari dua sumber berbeda dan mengusulkan jaringan Bayesian untuk prediksi perubahan.

Apa yang dimaksud dengan penyatuan entitas kuasi-mutan dan entitas yang terhubung? Metode ini dapat digunakan untuk memprediksi potensi ketidakpastian. Sebuah survei terhadap dua proyek OSS berukuran sedang menunjukkan kelayakan dan produktivitas pendekatan kami dibandingkan dengan pekerjaan sebelumnya. Matthew Van Antwerp dan Greg Madey [10] menjelaskan pertimbangan penting OSS terkait popularitas proyek. Penelitian mereka menunjukkan bahwa hubungan yang ada antara pengembang merupakan indikator popularitas suatu proyek di masa lalu dan masa depan. Maballero dkk. [14] mengembangkan opsi fitur khusus yang disebut OSS-Network yang menggunakan jaringan sosial untuk melakukan penelitian pada komunitas online. Jaringan OSS membantu mengurangi tantangan pengkodean, debugging, dan dukungan pengguna bagi para peneliti. Memberikan opsi khusus untuk mengumpulkan, mengamati, dan menganalisis data.

Mengapa kami Thung Ferdian dkk. harus tahu. [7] Mereka memeriksa pembuatan kode sumber yang membentuk jaringan di GitHub. Pengembang dan pimpinan proyek untuk subnet GitHub. Ini membantu pengembang memahami asosiasi pengembang dan proyek. Temukan hubungan antara proyek, pengembang, dan proyek berpengaruh. Mereka menganalisis jaringan proyek di GitHub. Apa itu jaringan? Proyek hanya memerlukan pengembang reguler untuk menjalin hubungan antar proyek. Temukan proyek dan pengembang berpengaruh berdasarkan peringkat halaman dan distribusikan banyak proyek ke banyak pengembang.

Hasilnya menunjukkan bahwa distribusi diagram jaringan proyek umumnya mengikuti hukum kekuasaan, namun distribusi diagram jaringan pengembang tidak. P. Bhattacharya dkk. [8] Visualisasi pengembangan proyek perangkat lunak. Analisis pengembangan perangkat lunak dan buat prediktor untuk menyederhanakan pengembangan dan pemeliharaan. Analisis hasil 11 proyek besar, termasuk Eclipse dan Firefox, menunjukkan bahwa prediktor dapat mendeteksi perubahan struktural yang signifikan. Hal ini dapat membantu pengembang menilai tingkat keparahan bug, memprioritaskan pekerjaan sulih suara, dan memprediksi build yang rawan bug. Nicolás López [5] meneliti bagaimana model topik dapat membantu memahami pengembangan sistem perangkat lunak. Pertimbangkan hubungan dengan pengembang dan pelajari lebih lanjut tentang pengembangan tema.

 

 

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1 SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE

2 REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

3

4 PUBLIC MEETING

5

6

7 VOLUME I

8

9 Aurora Inn

10 Nome, Alaska

11 February 15, 2011

12 8:41 a.m.

13

14 Members Present:

15

16 Michael Quinn, Acting Chairman

17 Peter Buck

18 Fred Eningowuk

19 Anthony Keyes

20 Peter Martin

21 Elmer Seetot

22 Tim Smith

23

24

25 Regional Council Coordinator - Alex Nick

26

27

28

29

30

31

32

33

34

35

36

37

38

39

40

41

42 Recorded and transcribed by:

43

44 Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC

45 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2

46 Anchorage, AK 99501

47 907-243-0668/907-227-5312

48 sahile@gci.net

 

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2

3 (Nome, Alaska - 2/15/2011)

4

5 (On record)

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I'm going to call

8

9 REPORTER: Mike. Mike.

10

11 MR. BUCK: Mic.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Could you just sit

14 right next to me?

15

16 REPORTER: I could. I could. Just

17 leave it on, Mike.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

20

21 REPORTER: You can leave yours on, then

22 you don't have to worry about it, everyone else, on and

23 off.

24

25 (Laughter)

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, who's here from

28 OSM besides you, Alex?

29

30 MR. NICK: Tom.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You are?

33

34 MR. KRON: Tom Kron with OSM.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

37

38 MS. BROWN: Cole Brown from OSM.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, I haven't seen you

41 in so long I didn't recognize you.

42

43 MS. BROWN: And I just chopped my hair.

44

45 (Laughter)

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, me, too.

48

49 (Laughter)

50

 

2

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, 8:41 or so.

2 Let's officially call

3

4 (Laughter)

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: the meeting to

7 order. Let's see, do you want

8

9 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair, I can do the

10 roll.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, Alex, you do the

13 roll.

14

15 MR. NICK: Anthony Keyes.

16

17 MR. KEYES: Present.

18

19 MR. NICK: Peter Buck.

20

21 MR. BUCK: Here.

22

23 MR. NICK: Louis H. Green, Jr.

24

25 (No comments)

26

27 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. I understand Mr.

28 Green will be participating on line today.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

31

32 MR. NICK: Tom L. Gray.

33

34 (No comments)

35

36 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: He's excused.

39

40 MR. NICK: Tom Gray needed to be

41 excused because he's traveling out of town and he'll be

42 participating in the meeting tomorrow.

43

44 Peter Martin.

45

46 MR. MARTIN: Here.

47

48 MR. NICK: Weaver Ivanoff.

49

50 (No comments)

 

3

 

1 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Weaver is not - 

2 unable to participate.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes.

5

6 MR. NICK: Fred D. Eningowuk.

7

8 MR. ENINGOWUK: Here.

9

10 MR. NICK: Elmer Seetot, Jr.

11

12 MR. SEETOT: Here.

13

14 MR. NICK: Michael Quinn.

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Here.

17

18 MR. NICK: Timothy Edwin Smith.

19

20 (No comments)

21

22 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Tim should be

23 here shortly, hopefully.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

26

27 MR. NICK: You have a quorum.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, well, then

30 welcome everybody to the meeting. I'm a little

31 disappointed there aren't more people here.

32

33 Let's see, introductions. All right,

34 so Mr. Martin, we'll start with you and we'll go around

35 the room.

36

37 MR. MARTIN: Peter Martin

38

39 REPORTER: Peter.

40

41 MR. MARTIN: Peter Martin, Jr.,

42 Stebbins.

43

44 MR. KEYES: Anthony Keyes from Wales.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Mike Quinn, Nome.

47

48 MR. ENINGOWUK: Fred Eningowuk,

49 Shishmaref.

50

 

4

 

1 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Jr., Brevig

2 Mission.

3

4 MR. BUCK: Peter Buck, White Mountain.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. That's

7 everyone that's here at the moment. Tom -- oh, good,

8 there's Tim. Was Louis just in that meeting today?

9

10 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. My understanding

11 is the meeting he was in was going to be the next two

12 days but there were going to be breaks and

13

14 REPORTER: Tom. Tom.

15

16 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. My

17 understanding, talking to Louis at the airport, was

18 that the meeting was today and tomorrow, but during the

19 breaks as much as he could, he was going to call into

20 this meeting.

21

22 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Okay,

25 Alex, I would like to put the election of officers off

26 for an undisclosed amount of time today until both Mr.

27 Smith is here and into the groove, and I'll hope that

28 we can conduct it at a time that Mr. Green can call in

29 so we have the maximum amount of participants available

30 for that election of officers. So I can't designate an

31 exact time but if Louis calls in I may interrupt the

32 meeting and just go ahead and we'll do election of

33 officers.

34

35 Therefore, we move on to adopting the

36 agenda. Hopefully everybody's seen the agenda. Hello

37 Tim, have a seat.

38

39 MR. SMITH: Good morning. Sorry I'm

40 late.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It sounds like you're

43 a little sick.

44

45 MR. SMITH: I'm just recovering from a

46 case of the Nome crude.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, goodness. All

49 right, so we're going to start going over today's

50 agenda and see if we need to change anything. And

 

5

 

1 let's see I think that on Page 2 under Alaska

2 Department of Fish and Game I'm going to add advisory

3 committee action -- I'll do that after you speak Letty.

4 I imagine you're the designated speaker today.

5

6 MS. HUGHES: As of right now.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Okay, so

9 I'm going to add that. There's something that came up

10 at the State level that I'd like to bring in front of

11 this Council and maybe we can get together and also

12 include a comment. I think we barely have time to get

13 a comment into the Board of Game on this particular

14 proposal.

15

16 Anyone els got any changes?

17

18 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I would like to

19 add

20

21 REPORTER: Wait, wait, Tim, your

22 microphone.

23

24 MR. SMITH: a section on

25

26 REPORTER: Tim.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Turn your mic on.

29

30 MR. SMITH: Oh, it's where?

31

32 REPORTER: No -- yeah, right there,

33 when that red light comes on, it's on, great.

34

35 MR. SMITH: Thank you. I'd like to add

36 a -- I hope you can understand me, I'm having a hard

37 time.

38

39 REPORTER: No problem, you're fine,

40 thanks.

41

42 MR. SMITH: My name is Tim Smith. I'd

43 like to add a section for considering Regional Advisory

44 Council action on chum salmon bycatch in the trawl

45 fishery.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Then we will - 

48 let's see where are we, next meeting date -- we'll add

49 that under No. 14, other business, Council comment

50

 

6

 

1 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes.

4

5 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair, Item No.

6 12, agencies and other reports No. 4 under A, Section

7 A, there'll be some discussion there about salmon

8 bycatch

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, thank you.

11

12 MR. KRON: groundfish fisheries.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you, Tom.

15

16 MR. KRON: That would be the perfect

17 place for Tim to add that.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You betcha.

20

21 MR. KRON: Thank you.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you, again.

24

25 All right. Anybody else got anything

26 they'd like to add.

27

28 MR. MARTIN: Mr. Chair. No. 9, I'd

29 like to make a proposal, Change to Federal Subsistence

30 Wildlife Regulations for Unit 22 remainder and that is

31 when -- when it comes up, I would like to make a change

32 from January 1st to February 15th to December 15 to

33 January 31st.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So we'll

36 discuss that as a proposal. Call for change of

37 regulations.

38

39 All right, anything else.

40

41 MR. KEYES: Yes. Well, since we're on

42 this. I want to bring up some concerns and let

43 everybody here know, due to our weather conditions

44 nowadays, I barely made it into Nome. We have to look

45 at our weather factors being our tough choices of

46 getting on the plane in the future.

47

48 Thank you.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I thought I saw

 

7

 

1 something in here, Alex, on

2

3 MR. SEETOT: 12, A, 1.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, travel procedure,

6 all right, so, Tony, you get to speak about potential

7 travel problems at that time, or anyone else.

8

9 Okay.

10

11 Anything else we want to add.

12

13 (No comments)

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So

16 then

17

18 MR. BUCK: Make a motion to accept the

19 agenda.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you.

22

23 MR. MARTIN: Second.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Second by Peter

26 Martin. Any discussion.

27

28 (No comments)

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: None heard.

31

32 MR. SEETOT: Question.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Question. All those

35 in favor of the motion say aye.

36

37 IN UNISON: Aye.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

40

41 (No opposing votes)

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I think that was

44 unanimous. All right, did that.

45

46 Now, open your book to Page 5, we'll

47 look at the minutes from the last meeting.

48

49 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair.

50

 

8

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes, go ahead, Alex.

2

3 MR. NICK: Yeah, I want to note that I

4 -- I want to let the Council know, Council and audience

5 know that maybe this is probably one of the poor

6 minutes that I've written because of the very hastily,

7 but the changes you note will be made.

8

9 Mr. Chair.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: For the last minutes?

12

13 MR. NICK: Yes.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, it looks pretty

16 good to me. Of course that was six months ago and none

17 of us can remember anything we did six months ago.

18

19 (Laughter)

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, yeah, it's pretty

22 long, gee, I think they look good.

23

24 All right, well

25

26 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

29

30 MR. SEETOT: Typo on Page 10 the bottom

31 under public comment, I'm not sure if Mr. Lean wanted

32 to write down Iguupuk -- Dolly Vardens on the Iquupuk,

33 if that's appropriate river, that's what I'm thinking,

34 that he was trying to

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: That's probably a

37 misspelling.

38

39 MR. SEETOT: I-Q-U-U-P-U-K, I don't

40 think that's

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: That would be Iquupuk?

43

44 MR. SEETOT: A-G-I-A-P-U-K, that's the

45 way it appears on the map, that's what I think that he

46 was thinking about.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sure.

49

50 MR. SEETOT: And also on Page 15, Mr.

 

9

 

1 Mr. Noiqkuk and Mr. Karkarek's [sic] last names are

2 spelled incorrectly. Those are the typos that I found

3 in here.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: On 15.

6

7 MR. SEETOT: Under Bureau of Land

8 Management.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh.

11

12 MR. SEETOT: They have that Noiqkuk and

13 Karkarek [sic] Herd misspelled, and those were the only

14 typos that I ran into.

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh.

17

18 MR. SEETOT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Alex, you're

21 getting that?

22

23 MR. NICK: Yes, and Tina is.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Elmer, you could

26 probably help Alex and Tina during a break with making

27 sure those two names are spelled correctly.

28

29 MR. SEETOT: Okay.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And Alex the river

32 he's talking about on Page 10 is A-G-I-A-P-U-K, oh, and

33 then the other thing you can do is open up the book,

34 except I don't have one, and see it as well. But,

35 anyway, okay, any other changes to the minutes.

36

37 If not, I'll accept a motion to adopt.

38

39 MR. MARTIN: So moved.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion by Peter

42 Martin.

43

44 MR. BUCK: Seconded.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seconded by Peter

47 Buck. Any discussion.

48

49 (No comments)

50

 

10

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: If not, question - 

2 call the question.

3

4 MR. SEETOT: Question.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All those in favor of

7 the motion say aye.

8

9 IN UNISON: Aye.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Opposed.

12

13 (No opposing votes)

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries.

16

17 MR. SMITH: Well, I'll abstain, Mike.

18 I wasn't -- I didn't attend the meeting.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sure, okay. Action

21 report, okay, who's got that, No. 7.

22

23 MR. KRON: Mr. Chairman. Action report

24 from the January 18th through 20th meeting in

25 Anchorage, 2011, that just occurred here a little over

26 a month ago.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Uh-huh.

29

30 MR. KRON: And, again, it's included

31 there starting on Page 19 to give you a summary of

32 information from that meeting. I know Tim was there,

33 others may have been there as well, but, again, this is

34 a summary of the results from that meeting, just for

35 your information.

36

37 So unless you've got any questions it's

38 something to look at.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right.

41

42 MR. KRON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you, Tom. Does

45 anybody have any questions.

46

47 MR. SMITH: Yes.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

50

 

11

 

1 MR. SMITH: It's not a question, it's a

2 comment. That was the first Federal Subsistence Board

3 meeting I've attended and my understanding was it was

4 handled very differently than previous meetings and it

5 was different than any meeting like it that I've ever

6 attended and I've been going to meetings like that for

7 many years.

8

9 The big difference was people had

10 plenty of time to participate. You know, I went as a

11 member of the public at my own expense and I was given

12 pretty much the same deference as the people that were

13 sitting at the table. It was really a good system. I

14 don't know how long they're going to be able to do

15 that. The problem is it takes a lot of time. But, you

16 know, I don't know if you've ever attended a North

17 Pacific Fisheries Management Council meeting, you get a

18 minute and a half. It's really hard to talk about a

19 complex issue in a minute and a half, especially if

20 you're not professional. And I really, really

21 appreciated the way this one was conducted. And I give

22 Chairman Towarak a lot of credit for trying a new

23 method. Because, you know, for years it's been clear

24 to me that the methods of communication that are used

25 at these meetings are not appropriate for people from

26 rural areas, particularly where there's language

27 problems and where people are non-professional meeting

28 attenders, and, you know. I do it myself. I get done

29 with my minute and a half and I think boy I wish I

30 would've said something different.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yep.

33

34 MR. SMITH: Well, in this case you had

35 another chance at it. You could get another bite at

36 the apple, you could go back and say it the way you

37 meant it the first time. And I really think this is an

38 excellent way to handle meetings, if we can do it, if

39 we can handle the logistics of it. I know it's going

40 to make the meetings a lot longer. But if the goal is

41 to get meaningful input from rural areas we're going to

42 have slow things down. There's just no way of getting

43 around it.

44

45 So, I thought it was great and I really

46 encourage any of the rest of you to go if you can; it's

47 really worth it.

48

49 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

50

 

12

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes, go ahead.

2

3 MR. BUCK: I also attended that meeting

4 and it was also my first Federal Subsistence Board

5 meeting and it was also Tim Towarak's first Board

6 meeting. But the emphasis was put on rural opinions

7 and that they're not held off or that we listen to

8 them, okay, and I think that the meeting went really,

9 really good, yeah, I enjoyed it.

10

11 Thank you.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom, did Mr. Towarak

14 pretty much plan and implement that meeting?

15

16 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. He had a major

17 role, again, as the New Chair. The Department of

18 Interior working with the Department of Agriculture

19 have made some changes to the process. We'll be

20 talking about some of those later on in the meeting and

21 they want more input from the Councils as well. But,

22 again, part of this is to provide a quick summary of

23 the meeting for you so you can see what happened there

24 and what action was taken on fisheries proposals.

25

26 They are also implementing a tribal

27 consultation process to figure out how they're going to

28 implement that in a meaningful way.

29

30 There's a summary in your book, I

31 think, on Page 77, of the results from an executive

32 session the Board had to look at the Secretaries

33 directions and decide how to implement those. So they

34 want to be more open, slow the process down, provide

35 meaningful input for rural users and I'm sure they'll

36 be pleased to hear that those that attended felt it was

37 a good process.

38

39 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. All right. So

42 it looks like we're going to get into some of the meat

43 and potatoes of the meeting. Wildlife closure review,

44 Council recommendations. And Cole, you're going to

45 speak A, Page 32.

46

47 MS. BROWN: Yes, good morning, Mr.

48 Chair. Members of the Council. My name is Cole Brown.

49 I'm with the Office of Subsistence Management. And I

50 will be going over the wildlife closures for Seward

 

13

 

1 Peninsula.

2

3 We'll start with the Wildlife Closure

4 Review briefing, which is on Page 32 of your books.

5

6 As called for in the closure policy,

7 which is on Pages 33 through 36 in your Council books,

8 the Office of Subsistence Management is reviewing

9 existing wildlife closures to determine whether the

10 original justification for closure is still consistent

11 with the Federal Subsistence Board's Closure Policy.

12 Section .815, (3) of ANILCA allows closures, when

13 necessary, for the conservation of healthy populations

14 of fish and wildlife and to continue subsistence uses

15 of such populations.

16

17 Distribution and abundance of fish and

18 wildlife populations are known to fluctuate based upon

19 a variety of factors. Subsistence use patterns are

20 also known to change in response to factors including

21 resource abundance and human population changes.

22

23 The Wildlife Closure Reviews contain a

24 brief history of why a closure was implemented along

25 with a summary of the current resource condition and a

26 preliminary OSM recommendation as to whether the

27 closure should be continued or deleted from the

28 regulations. Councils are asked to consider the OSM

29 preliminary recommendation and share their views on the

30 issue.

31

32 Input from the Councils is critical to

33 the development of regulatory proposals.

34

35 The current deadline to submit wildlife

36 proposals is March 24th, 2011. Councils may choose to

37 work with OSM Staff to develop a proposal, however,

38 proposals may be submitted by anyone.

39

40 So if there's not any questions with

41 that we'll continue on with the wildlife closure

42 reviews that we have for Seward Peninsula.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Cole and Tom, where's

45 Pete and Polly and why isn't one of them here, and

46 what's your boss' name, Cole?

47

48 MS. BROWN: Chuck.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Chuck.

 

14

 

1 MR. KRON: Mr. Chairman. I can give

2 you some information on a number of those people.

3

4 Pete Probasco had intended to be at

5 this meeting, he was unable to attend and I apologize

6 for him, he asked me to attend to represent him. I

7 believe Chuck Ardizzone has jury duty.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh.

10

11 MR. KRON: Polly, I think, is signed up

12 to attend about half of the 10 Regional Advisory

13 Councils. But, again, we will represent OSM and help

14 you out in any way we can. And if we have questions we

15 may end up calling back to Anchorage, but we will do

16 our very best.

17

18 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, I'm

21 used to seeing Helen Armstrong here and a little larger

22 Staff. And I thought this outfit was getting more

23 money so I'm kind of surprised that we're not seeing as

24 much of a footprint here as I did in the past. But,

25 Cole, you can carry on with Review No. 10-10.

26

27 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

28

29 Wildlife Closure Review 10-10, the

30 closure location was in Unit 22B and it was for muskox.

31 The closure dates were from August 1st through March

32 15th.

33

34 Justification for original closure,

35 Proposal WP01-35 was the result of a multi-year

36 cooperative effort of the Seward Peninsula Muskox

37 Cooperatives Group to establish a muskox harvest system

38 that would be biologically sound in its management and

39 provide for a continued subsistence uses of the

40 population. In order to meet these criteria the Board

41 closed Federal public lands in Unit 22B to non 

42 Federally-qualified hunters during the August 1st

43 through March 15th season.

44

45 Current resource abundance related to

46 management objective. The current size and continued

47 growth of the Unit 22B muskox population is meeting the

48 State's management goals.

49

50 The resource population trend. By 2010

 

15

 

1 the Seward Peninsula muskox population increased to an

2 estimated 3,120 animals, that's for the entire Seward

3 Peninsula. In Unit 22B, muskoxen are well established

4 west and east of the Darby Mountains as the population

5 has increased from three in 1992 to about 541 animals

6 by 2010. The ratios of mature bulls which are four

7 years and older, has decreased from over 50 mature

8 bulls in 2002 to less than 40 mature bulls in 2009.

9 The decline in mature bull ratios along with the

10 tendency for hunters to select for mature bulls over

11 younger bulls can lead to a reduced harvest quota in

12 order to help insure healthy muskox ratios.

13

14 Harvest trend and/or hunting effort.

15 Unit 22B muskox harvest has varied from nine to 20

16 bulls and the quota has been set at 16 bulls for the

17 years 2005 to 2009. The majority of the harvest during

18 these years was by Federally-qualified subsistence

19 hunters.

20

21 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to

22 maintain the status quo, which is to maintain the

23 closure.

24

25 The justification is Federal public

26 lands should remain closed to non-Federally-qualified

27 users for the conservation of a healthy population and

28 to allow the continuation of subsistence uses of

29 muskox. Although the muskox population within the

30 Seward Peninsula and in Unit 22B continues to grow, the

31 number harvested is still tightly managed with a quota

32 system and there's not enough of a harvestable surplus

33 to support non-Federally-qualified hunters beyond what

34 is already being harvested by Federally-qualified

35 subsistence hunters.

36

37 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Who wrote this, Cole?

40

41 MS. BROWN: I believe it was our other

42 wildlife biologist Spencer Reardon.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. It says tightly

45 managed with a quota system. What's the current quota

46 in 22B?

47

48 (Laughter)

49

50 MS. HUGHES: Okay, this is Letty Hughes

 

16

 

1 with Fish and Game. To the Chair and to the Board.

2 22B West has a quota of 23 and 22B East of the Darby

3 Mountains has a quota of three. And for both of those

4 areas it's bull only.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Cole, you should come

7 to these meetings familiar with that sort of

8 information in my opinion.

9

10 What was the quota last year?

11

12 MS. HUGHES: I want to say I believe it

13 was about 15 if I remember correctly.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I think it was 12.

16 And the quota actually doubled from one year to the

17 next.

18

19 Okay. Anybody have any questions.

20

21 MR. SMITH: I have a question.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yep.

24

25 MR. SMITH: I'm wondering why there's

26 so many unknowns in 2009? I'm referring to Table 1 on

27 Page 41.

28

29 MS. HUGHES: Okay, I'm just taking a

30 look at this really quick to answer your question.

31 Okay, I do not know why it has unknown down or, you

32 know, maybe at the time that this was given, it was

33 very possible that they did not know, but I mean at

34 this current date we should have updated numbers on

35 this. So I can get that back to you.

36

37 MR. SMITH: Can you get those numbers

38 to us before this meeting is over?

39

40 MS. HUGHES: I'm sorry?

41

42 MR. SMITH: Can you get those numbers

43 to us before this meeting is over?

44

45 MS. HUGHES: Yes.

46

47 MR. SMITH: Thank you.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, the answer to

50 one of my questions is right there. I believe 2009 was

 

17

 

1 last year's hunt, correct, Letty, we're actually in the

2 2010 hunt now?

3

4 MS. HUGHES: That is correct.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So last

7 year's quota was 11. This year's quota is 23. All

8 right, here's 22. If you open your book there you can

9 get an idea of just how much Federal land is involved

10 in 22B area. And the Darby Mountains divide B into an

11 East and West hunt area.

12

13 Cole, I probably didn't pay as close

14 attention as I should have, how often do we review

15 wildlife closures?

16

17 MS. BROWN: Every three years, Mr.

18 Chair.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, if we continue

21 this closure it'll be in effect for three more years?

22

23 MS. BROWN: Or you can open it through

24 a special action or you can request to put in a

25 proposal this wildlife regulatory cycle, which is why

26 we're bringing these up, if you would like to bring in

27 a proposal then we would write one up and that would be

28 reviewed within this next regulatory cycle. If you

29 choose to keep the wildlife closure at this time, you

30 can still bring up a wildlife special action outside

31 the regulatory period. So you're not beholden to the

32 three years.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

35 here's Unit -- on Page 40 here's a graph, I'm sure

36 provided by the state of Alaska, for Unit 22B muskox

37 census, and you can see from 2007 to 2010 the

38 population increased dramatically. I guess that would

39 legitimize the higher quota.

40

41 I guess, Cole, I'm surprised with the

42 large increase in the number of animals, the large

43 change in the quota that you'd still recommend this

44 closure.

45

46 MS. BROWN: Mr. Chair. There are

47 several factors, the first being that this was the

48 first year that that census method was actually

49 conducted, so to apply that census technique to the

50 previous years there are a lot of problems with that

 

18

 

1 because of assumptions. So because it's the only year

2 that that has been -- that census technique has been

3 utilized, it's a stand-alone figure as 541 animals,

4 without anything to compare it to. Because it does

5 seem to be, when you look at the graph, I mean there's

6 a huge jump in that, so is that part of the new census

7 technique or is that actually that there are more

8 animals in that area or were they just being missed

9 before because of the census technique or are there

10 actually more animals.

11

12 In addition to that, while the numbers,

13 the overall numbers seem to have increased, the mature

14 bull/cow ratio has decreased.

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, now, wait a

17 minute, you just told me the figure from the last

18 census is bogus, why is any of this other information

19 any good

20

21 MS. BROWN: Because

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: as well?

24

25 MS. BROWN: Mr. Chair. Because the

26 mature bull/cow ratio has decreased over a period of

27 five years.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, how do you know

30 that, you can't trust this last year's worth of

31 information?

32

33 MS. BROWN: Okay. So

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: If you're going to

36 tell me

37

38 MS. BROWN: if you look at -- if

39 you look at, Mr. Chair

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right.

42

43 MS. BROWN: let me see where is

44 it, I'm trying to find out what table it is, well, it's

45 on Page 39, so Table 1 -- okay, so it is in Table 1.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, Table 1 is on

48 Page 41 in our book.

49

50 MS. BROWN: It has -- right, but I

 

19

 

1 can't -- I'm looking at where that is located within

2 the table, and I personally don't see it so that is why

3 I think it might actually be a typo.

4

5 MS. HUGHES: Okay, to the Chair, and I

6 do want to kind of comment on this as well. Part of

7 what you're seeing in the increase in number, as well,

8 is when we decided to do this new line, distance line

9 transect method, is we also included areas into the

10 muskox estimate that were not previously, you know, put

11 in, so we went further east, we went into, you know,

12 22A, so in previous years, you know, we did not look at

13 those areas. So what you're also seeing is, you know,

14 the range expansion with these other areas that we've

15 looked at for muskox. So, you know, that's just

16 something else to take into consideration when you look

17 at this number from the 2010 muskox census, is where we

18 actually went into the study area.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. But, Letty, the

21 figure says it's a Unit 22B census count. What does

22 your increase into Unit 22A have to do with the Unit

23 22B muskox figures?

24

25 MS. HUGHES: Well, you are correct, I

26 was just clarifying.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. And, I

29 mean, as I said in the beginning, this is probably your

30 graph, right, Letty, on 22B?

31

32 MS. HUGHES: Yes, it is the

33 Department's graph.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Is the 541

36 figure believable or not?

37

38 MS. HUGHES: We can say it's a very

39 good estimate.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: There you go, I like

42 that, Tim.

43

44 MR. SMITH: I think maybe a little more

45 clarification is probably called for. I'm always a

46 little dubious of population numbers without a

47 confidence interval, and I see there isn't one. 541 is

48 an estimate but there's a confidence interval around

49 that, do you have any estimates of precision in your

50 population estimate?

 

20

 

1 MS. HUGHES: We do. And I can get in

2 touch with Tony on that.

3

4 MR. SMITH: Yeah, it's not a matter of

5 believability so much as it's a different method. The

6 methods before were an attempt at a minimum count even

7 though they should have a confidence interval on them

8 and they never do because there's no way to estimate

9 with precision in a direct count method. But this last

10 one is an entirely different, it's a scientific

11 sampling method of estimating numbers. It's 541 but it

12 could be a lot less than that, it could be more than

13 that, you can't really say for sure exactly what it is,

14 541 is just the middle of your estimate. And so maybe

15 the muskox population grew that much, maybe it didn't.

16

17 The real concern here is, I think, or a

18 concern is with the bull/cow ratio. You know, muskoxen

19 are -- they defend themselves against predators and

20 bulls are very important in being able to do that. And

21 we're seeing that bears are killing a lot more muskox

22 than they did in the past, and without the bulls I

23 think you could expect predation to increase quite a

24 bit.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: My discussions with

27 Tony in the past have said -- he's always insisted he

28 has a very high confidence level and if you -- the

29 title of Figure 2 is census counts, and he's stated

30 that they actually count animals. Now if that's not

31 true for the 541 figure then I don't know what to say.

32

33 We definitely, at least at the State

34 level, have heard a lot of comment on bull/cow ratios

35 and I believe that that particular area 22B only allows

36 bull harvests so whether you harvest a mature bull or a

37 younger bull, you're still going to harvest bulls and

38 affect -- at some level you're going to affect the

39 mature bull to cow ratio. If you harvest a younger one

40 this year, well, okay, you haven't affected it this

41 year, but you're going to affect it in later years.

42

43 Well, you don't need to debate this all

44 day long. I would like to see information provided to

45 this Council that's accurate and the people that

46 present this information to the Council are familiar

47 with it.

48

49 Okay, any other questions. If anybody

50 wants to make a proposal we can -- or a motion, I'm

 

21

 

1 sorry, we can do that.

2

3 MR. SMITH: Mike.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

6

7 MR. SMITH: I move to accept the

8 continuation of the closure and I guess I'll discuss it

9 if we get a second.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, motion's on the

12 floor.

13

14 MR. KEYES: I'll second it.

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seconded by Tony.

17

18 Discussion.

19

20 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I think that there is

21 a little confusion about it. I agree with you, Mike,

22 there is confusion about the way this data's presented.

23 I think that's problematic. You know, I think it's

24 useful to try a different method of estimating X

25 numbers, direct counts are getting harder and harder to

26 do because of the increasing numbers. But I think we

27 need to be very cautious about just accepting this

28 number at face value. You know, it's a scientific

29 sample, there's always a lot of problems in

30 methodology.

31

32 The biggest problem of all with

33 muskoxen is, the whole concept that there's such a

34 thing as a Unit 22B population is flawed, there is no

35 such thing as a Unit 22B population. That's an

36 artificial division for convenience of management and

37 it has nothing to do with muskox populations. And so

38 we're just taking a snapshot of the muskoxen that are

39 on this piece of ground at the time they do the census

40 and it's a whole flawed concept.

41

42 Muskox management will get a lot easier

43 if we have more muskoxen. There'll be a lot less

44 conflicts over who gets what if we get the numbers up.

45 The carrying capacity of muskoxen on the Seward

46 Peninsula is very high, very high, tens of thousands of

47 animals, and the sooner we get there, in my opinion,

48 the less conflict we're going to have.

49

50 MR. KEYES: I have a question for Cole.

 

22

 

1 This is Anthony. Are these animals being counted

2 through the air, such as using the helicopter or by

3 foot?

4

5 MS. HUGHES: Through the Chair to

6 Anthony, Mr. Keyes. We do use -- we have a fleet of

7 SuperCubs, 185s that we use to count these animals.

8

9 MR. KEYES: Using aircrafts such as

10 SuperCubs and your helicopter I know you're going to

11 miss some animals because there is some animals that

12 are in the trees laying down and I think to do your

13 counting would be easier by foot after you had spotted

14 them at the air because, you know, you could see only

15 so much up in the air but when you get on the ground,

16 on your two feet, you get to see more because there's

17 some in the willows that are being missed and I'm

18 pretty sure of that.

19

20 MS. HUGHES: You're absolutely correct.

21

22 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

25

26 MR. BUCK: On Page 38 on the -- for the

27 muskox 22B, it says the Cooperators Group opposed

28 muskox hunting in 22B, I would like to understand what

29 was their opposition for?

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Where on Page 38 is

32 that?

33

34 MR. BUCK: If anybody from the

35 Cooperators Group is here I'd like an explanation.

36

37 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

40

41 MR. SEETOT: I'm on the Cooperators

42 Group. I think at that time for 22B it was for the

43 growth of the muskox to set in subunit 22B so that was

44 pretty much the closure I think at that time if I do

45 remember correctly.

46

47 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Ken

48 Adkisson, National Park Service. I currently function

49 as the Chair of the Cooperators Group so maybe I can

50 help answer that question if you'll repeat it please?

 

23

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

2

3 MR. ADKISSON: What was the

4 specific

5

6 MR. BUCK: All of it.

7

8 MR. ADKISSON: question?

9

10 MR. BUCK: All of -- the specific

11 question was if you look on 38

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Peter, actually that

14 wasn't from the Cooperators unless I'm reading the

15 wrong one.

16

17 MR. BUCK: State recommendations for

18 original closure, okay.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay.

21

22 MR. BUCK: And down there the very last

23 section.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, I see.

26

27 MR. BUCK: And the Muskox Cooperators

28 Group opposed the muskox hunting in 22B, so

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, that was in

31 1998.

32

33 MR. BUCK: Okay. Okay. Okay, we can

34 cancel that then, I'm sorry.

35

36 (Laughter)

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: That's okay. That was

39 awhile ago before there were as many muskox as we got

40 now.

41

42 (Laughter)

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: We got just enough to

45 argue over now.

46

47 (Laughter)

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So any

50 more discussion. If not I'll call for the question.

 

24

 

1 MR. SEETOT: Question.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, the motion is to

4 support the proposal to continue the closure or is to

5 support to continue the closure, okay.

6

7 All those in favor of the motion say

8 aye.

9

10 IN UNISON: Aye.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

13

14 (No opposing votes)

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries. Okay,

17 Cole, No. 11. Oh, moose, okay.

18

19 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

20 Let's see the next two wildlife closure reviews, WCR10 

21 11 and WCR10-12 were analyzed together. They were of

22 the same hunt but a different season so fall and winter

23 season. They start on Page 42 of your books.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

26

27 MS. BROWN: The closure location is

28 Unit 22B, west of the Darby Mountains and it is from

29 moose. The closure dates for WCR10-11 is the fall

30 season, September 1st through September 14th, Federal

31 public lands are closed to the harvest of moose except

32 by Federally-qualified subsistence users. WCR10-12 is

33 January 1st through January 31st, Federal public lands

34 are closed to the harvest of moose except by residents

35 of White Mountain and Golovin.

36

37 Justification for the original closure.

38 In 2002 the Board adopted Proposal WP02-34 and WP02-35

39 because of the small number of moose available for the

40 harvest relative to the number of subsistence users

41 with a customary and traditional use determination to

42 harvest moose and that's in Section .814 of ANILCA.

43

44 Current resource abundance related to

45 management objective. The ADF&G management objective

46 for moose in Unit 22B West, that's within the affected

47 area, is to maintain the population at 1,000 to 1,200

48 moose.

49

50 Resource population trend. As stated,

 

25

 

1 the management objective is between 1,000 to 1,200

2 moose. The most recent Unit 22B West population

3 estimate is 570 moose based on surveys at the end of

4 February 2010. This estimate indicates that the ADF&G

5 objective is not being met. Calf to cow ratios were 10

6 calves to 100 adults and the density was .23 moose per

7 square mile.

8

9 Moose harvested within the affected

10 area has remained relatively stable for years 2003 to

11 2008. That's in Table 2. The reported fall harvest

12 has ranged from 17 to 41 moose, and the reported winter

13 harvest has ranged from four to seven moose for years

14 2003 to 2008. Local residents of Unit 22 have

15 accounted for 69 to 74 percent of the moose harvested

16 for the 10 years from 1994 to 2004 and 78 to 90 percent

17 with the data from 2005 to 2007.

18

19 OSM preliminary conclusion is to

20 maintain the closure.

21

22 Justification. The Unit 22B moose

23 population west of the Darby Mountains continues to be

24 low and at a low density. There are no indications

25 that there has been any increase in the moose

26 population to justify non-subsistence harvest. The

27 population is still below ADF&G management objectives

28 and the harvest is generally taken by local residents.

29 Therefore, Federal public lands should remain closed to

30 non-Federally-qualified users for the conservation of a

31 healthy population and to allow the continuation of

32 subsistence uses of moose for fall and winter hunts.

33

34 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you, Cole.

37 Letty, are these tables any more believable than the

38 last group of tables for muskox?

39

40 MS. HUGHES: Through the Chair. As far

41 as I know, yes.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Any questions.

44 Oh, I'm sorry, speak up a little bit, don't

45

46 MR. SMITH: I'm having a hard time

47 speaking up, maybe my voice will get better by

48 tomorrow.

49

50 But I'd like to move that we adopt the

 

26

 

1 closure for non-qualified Federal subsistence users for

2 22B West and we'll discuss it if we get a second.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, a motion's on

5 the floor. Do I hear a second.

6

7 MR. KEYES: Second.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seconded by Tony.

10 Discussion. Tim.

11

12 MR. SMITH: Yeah, this is sad for me to

13 see. You know, one of the first things I did when I

14 came to the Seward Peninsula back in the early '80s is

15 I did moose studies. I tracked radio-collared moose in

16 Unit 22B, and all over the Seward Peninsula, and I also

17 participated in the moose counts in those days. And

18 things were great, I couldn't believe it. This was the

19 best place to hunt moose in the state of Alaska in the

20 early '80s, 22B especially was just remarkable, there

21 were a lot of moose in the Fish River Flats, and now

22 there aren't. And the really disturbing thing is

23 nobody knows why. There's a lot of speculation.

24 There's a lot of guesses. There's a lot of factors

25 that may be playing -- having an effect, but we don't

26 have the foggiest notion, really, what's keeping the

27 moose population from recovering.

28

29 I personally don't think it's hunting

30 but I don't know. And we just don't have enough data

31 on anything that's affecting those moose. And I don't

32 see any way, if they're going to come back. Provided

33 we can still have a harvest which I think is doubtful,

34 I mean I think maybe the best thing to do is to close

35 hunting completely, but if we're going to have a

36 harvest I'd like to see what few animals are available

37 go to the people in White Mountain and Golovin. You

38 know I've heard a lot of complaints from people down

39 there that they're getting out-competed by people from

40 Nome, you know, and people from Nome have better

41 equipment, maybe they're more ambitious, you know,

42 they've got more money, certainly, and so they're

43 getting the moose during the State season. So I guess

44 what few moose we can allocate for hunting I'd like to

45 see them go to the people in White Mountain and

46 Golovin.

47

48 MR. KEYES: This is Anthony. No matter

49 how much closures that we try to put on each village I

50 notice that we would have another village go and travel

 

27

 

1 into their village and do the hunting for themselves,

2 you know, taking away their abundancy for that

3 villages. That's why, you know, population of the

4 moose is starting to decline because you have other

5 villages sneaking into that certain area to do the

6 hunting because they can't find it in their own area.

7 That's the biggest main problem that we've been kind of

8 facing ever since we started this, you know, saying

9 this village should only hunt but there's always other

10 villages come sneaking in to do the hunting, you know.

11

12 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

15

16 MR. BUCK: One of the problems that we

17 had was in White Mountain for the moose hunting season,

18 you have a season between September 1st to September

19 14th and January 1st to January 31st, well, the January

20 1st to 31st season is in the wintertime and the moose

21 that we caught during that time was very little fat on

22 it, during the winter season.

23

24 The other problem that we had with

25 September 1st to 14th, one year in White Mountain the

26 water dropped and we couldn't get -- and you couldn't

27 boat and get your moose in White Mountain where we

28 usually get our moose because the water was so low and

29 the qualified hunters from Nome, in that region went to

30 Council River and got all the moose out of Council so

31 that's one of the problems that we had before.

32

33 But I think we pretty much worked it

34 out now, but we'd like to keep this season as it is

35 right now.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Well, Tim, if

38 you look at the fall season on the Federal side, the

39 Federal lands are closed to qualified subsistence users

40 and then you got to look in your Unit 22 book and you

41 see for moose, all rural residents of Unit 22 are

42 qualified subsistence users so the Federal system has,

43 for that fall season, has no way to really pick and

44 choose between where you live in 22 and if you get to

45 hunt in that particular hunt.

46

47 Now, if you look at the winter hunt

48 you'll see that the Federal lands are closed, except by

49 residents of White Mountain and Golovin, so in that

50 respect the Federal system does have the ability to

 

28

 

1 pick and choose, and I'm sure you're familiar with the

2 State season where the permits are only available in

3 White Mountain and Golovin for the winter hunt.

4

5 MR. SMITH: Right.

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: But everybody can get

8 the fall season hunt.

9

10 Okay. Any more discussion.

11

12 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Elmer.

15

16 MR. SEETOT: According to the number

17 results from 1987 with estimated high of about 1,800 to

18 2000 -- to 570, I think we need to take into account

19 other factors other than harvest by hunters. We do

20 have a lot of interior fires, I'm not too sure how much

21 that will affect the moose that do reside in the

22 forested areas but the majority that we catch in Brevig

23 kind of pretty much go through the middle of the Seward

24 Peninsula and then I would think that the smoke, smoke

25 and such would kind of affect these land animals. To

26 what extent I don't know.

27

28 Mortality rates, I would think that the

29 biologists would take into consideration why there is

30 such a decline in numbers and then also possibly

31 predation activity within these areas. Like I said in

32 previous meetings, we do complain a lot about

33 predators, especially bears around that area but

34 hunters themselves really haven't hunted the bears for

35 at least 20, 30 years, at least, in Brevig Mission.

36 Because when I was growing up before the TV and Western

37 technology really came into swing, all the pretty much

38 land animals were harvested pretty much for subsistence

39 or their by-products. But the latest technology and

40 everything, everything is going by the way to the

41 grocery stores, not much interest by young people,

42 other than participating in the activities of the

43 actual hunt itself and not so much processing, you

44 know, the resource. It's mostly done by the older

45 generation that crave subsistence foods when they're in

46 season, crave it more when they're not in season. But

47 I would think that other factors need to be taken into

48 consideration when you're looking at the decline of

49 certain resources other than just saying I think there

50 were just too much hunters present, you know, just

 

29

 

1 other circumstances come into play.

2

3 Possibly in this way that it just kind

4 of works out for a particular year. It might be dry - 

5 dry season for certain plants and other resources, it

6 might be a bad year when it's so dry for other things.

7 So -- but that's what we don't usually take into

8 account, is that we just kind of look at the human

9 aspect of it without really looking at wildlife does,

10 you know, in its natural state from birth to death.

11 That's what we really don't know too much about, only a

12 very small bit of information that we glean over the

13 years from people, observations or just by scientific

14 research and that's something you -- we need to look at

15 other than the Seward Peninsula has very little Federal

16 public lands in our portion other than the eastern

17 portion of Norton Sound. So that needs to be taken

18 into consideration actual mortality rates, other

19 factors when the decline of resources are being

20 questioned.

21

22 Thank you.

23

24 MR. KEYES: This is Anthony. I would

25 like to add on to Elmer's comment here about that we

26 have to take into consideration that every spring to

27 summer our weather is getting more warmer, more hotter

28 and which is bringing out more mosquitos. I noticed

29 the mosquito population has grown quite a bit on our

30 moose, caribou, reindeer, you know, the mosquito is

31 playing a major role on our animals here. And I've

32 seen through the past years, it's not only human that's

33 doing the damage on our animals, it's the, you know,

34 the insects are doing the major play too because if you

35 go up there on a hot day and you run into these lakes

36 where there's a lot of mosquitos, they got them on the

37 moose, the muskox, the caribou and the reindeer, so

38 other than having say there's wolves, fires, lack of

39 water, lack of environment, plantation for food for the

40 animals, you know. That's pretty much what I wanted to

41 add in for Elmer.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Letty, I notice where

44 it says that habitat's no longer believed to be the

45 limiting factor in the population and you talk about

46 brown bear predation, so that being said, and I

47 understand that the Board of Game will be discussing a

48 new bear management policy at the Region 4 meeting, I

49 think, and I read some of that, it sounded like they're

50 looking to allow a little few more options on getting

 

30

 

1 people to harvest bears. Does the State have any plans

2 to increase attempts, or possibilities for bear harvest

3 in 22B to assist this moose population?

4

5 MS. HUGHES: To the Chair. As of right

6 now I do not have an answer for that. If, you know,

7 proposals come forward before this coming, you know,

8 Region 5 November Board of Game, you know, it's very

9 possible, but as of right now what we have in the

10 regulation book is what we have.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: The Department often

13 makes proposals, what I'm asking you is in your office

14 is there any plan to maybe possibly submit a proposal,

15 you could increase the bag limit on brown bears in Unit

16 22B. I believe if the Board of Game passes this

17 management policy there'll actually be other avenues

18 available to you; have the people in your office been

19 discussing doing something about brown bear predation

20 on moose?

21

22 MS. HUGHES: There has not been

23 discussion on submitting a proposal by the Department

24 to increase brown bears in Unit 22, however, that does

25 not mean it's not a possibility or a suggestion.

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Cole, Letty

28 doesn't get the hot seat all by herself. The Federal

29 side needs to participate in this as well. Has there

30 been any discussions of proposals from the Federal side

31 to do something about brown bear harvest?

32

33 MS. BROWN: Not to my knowledge, no.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Well, ladies I

36 think we kind of look to your agencies to assist us in

37 this and it'd be nice to see some proactive efforts on

38 both your agency's parts in helping the people since we

39 can't -- all we can do is stop our harvest so

40

41 MS. BROWN: Mr. Chair. Anyone can

42 bring a proposal to the Federal Subsistence Program.

43 So if there -- whether it comes through this Council,

44 whether it comes as an individual, anyone can submit a

45 proposal if they would like to change the brown bear

46 harvest regulations.

47

48 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tim.

 

31

 

1 MR. SMITH: You know, 40 years ago I

2 don't think I would have imagined myself saying this

3 but -- and I know it's not on the table for this

4 meeting, but I think we need to really look at predator

5 control programs again if we intend to have food

6 animals here in Alaska. You know over the years I've

7 come to change my opinions on that. I just don't think

8 we can have healthy moose populations in 22B without

9 predator control. It's not just bears. Recently - 

10 you know, like I said I've spend hundreds of hours

11 flying out there, the latest thing I did I flew caribou

12 transects for the University of Alaska Reindeer

13 Research Program, I just criss-crossed the Fish River

14 Flats every week counting caribou and in that time like

15 I was able to count moose, too, they're easy to count

16 when there's snow cover. And, you know, years ago, you

17 know, I'd go two or three years without seeing a wolf

18 out there, now it's every time. You know I see it

19 every -- I could go up there in an hour and find a wolf

20 pack.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, are you carrying

23 your gun?

24

25 (Laughter)

26

27 MR. SMITH: I don't want to give my - 

28 no, I don't want to give my plane to the State, you

29 know, that's the problem.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: That's a joke.

32

33 MR. SMITH: Under current regulations

34 there's nothing we can do about it. And the people

35 aren't up there anymore, you know, that's another big

36 change over the years. Because of the cost of going

37 out you just don't see people out in the country like

38 there were in the past in an open area like the Fish

39 River Flats, wolves weren't able to move through the

40 Flats, somebody would find their tracks, run them down

41 and get them, well that doesn't happen anymore.

42 They're fairly -- they're able to operate all over the

43 Fish River Flats and they're taking a lot of moose.

44 And the problem with two predators together, bears and

45 wolves together, there's no way the moose population's

46 going to come back. And I really don't see any

47 alternative to predator control programs, you know, and

48 I know that's not part of this regulation but we can

49 stop people from hunting but it's not going to do it.

50 Hunting bull moose doesn't really make that much

 

32

 

1 difference anyway as long as you have enough bulls to

2 provide for reproduction, killing bull moose doesn't

3 affect the population and the bull/cow ratios are fine.

4 It's the cow to calf ratios that are the problem. And

5 the only way to change that, I think, is through

6 predator control.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Elmer.

9

10 MR. SEETOT: I think I have stated in

11 the past, you know, for predator control, the

12 regulations are in place for the residents or for the

13 people to encourage other people to hunt these

14 predators, we're the ones that are being affected.

15 We're putting pressure on State and Federal agencies,

16 they already have that number in place. We, the

17 village people, like I said we don't see bear hunting

18 in our area anymore, we have to be more active in the

19 management of predators if we want to see our wildlife

20 resources, ungulates, the moose, the caribou, the

21 reindeer to be out there.

22

23 We could talk forever on bear

24 management but it is up to the people in the subunits

25 to actively hunt in order to get these numbers down,

26 and that's the main problem.

27

28 I'm a subsistence hunter, when things

29 don't go wrong, I might be pissed off at that, I'll get

30 on people that regulate, that's the perspective of some

31 people, but for me to speak out for my community and

32 for the subregion, you have to take things that you

33 learn from actual observation, from people saying that

34 to you over and over again and from elders, actively

35 manage the resources so that when it comes down to

36 predator control, you know, you don't have no, oh, I

37 think I'll let you leave those alone because we have

38 only one for the whole state, stuff like that.

39

40 But these resources, we can actively

41 speak about them but it's for us, as residents, of the

42 subunit to actively participate or encourage others to

43 participate in the harvest of these resources. The

44 more you harvest, the more the resources will be

45 according to what our elders have passed down. If you

46 waste the resources or if I want to argue with Peter

47 Buck on the moose within that area, we could set up an

48 argument, and then unforeseen circumstance can come

49 into play, you argue about animal too much, it won't be

50 there for you, according to what has been passed on

 

33

 

1 down from generation to generation on wildlife

2 management and techniques learned over the years by the

3 elders.

4

5 Western society might have a different

6 aspect or side of it but they're pretty much

7 interrelated in the way how we manage the resources so

8 it's just a matter of people participating in order to

9 have good control of the resources in their area.

10

11 Thank you.

12

13 MR. BUCK: The White Mountain area it

14 was our tradition the values that we hunt bear and if

15 they find tracks of a bear they track the bear down and

16 kill it and that's the way we did it, I mean then it

17 was just handed down from tradition to tradition, just

18 to completely do that. And I know that we can't do

19 that right now but speaking of the bears and the

20 wolves, predators, the wolves nobody has really told me

21 that the wolves are doing anything. But I'd like to

22 talk about the bears and encourage the tribal councils

23 and the tribal coordinators and the people that do get

24 bears, that they should develop -- with the technology

25 that we have that you could develop a website where

26 that if you do take a bear, you got to know that in

27 Japan they pay a lot, a lot of money just for the bear

28 paw, and the bladders and stuff like that. So if you

29 can get your coordinators to get the hunters together

30 and then you have a lot of money coming out of that

31 bear, if you actually have a buyer, that's what I'd

32 like to see, that way we have -- you know we make money

33 off of getting rid of the bears plus you're doing a lot

34 of people a favor.

35

36 Thank you.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, before we can do

39 that, Peter, we're dependent upon those agencies to

40 make those things legal because currently they're

41 illegal.

42

43 Letty, why isn't 22B West in intensive

44 management for moose? We are doing all we can,

45 unfortunately at the Federal level by maintaining the

46 closure, other than stopping the harvest, but you guys

47 got a few more avenues available to you?

48

49 MS. HUGHES: Well, that is a good

50 question and that's something I would actually feel

 

34

 

1 more comfortable passing on to the area biologist,

2 which would be Tony Gorn.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, well, hopefully

5 you've heard enough here that we'd like to see a little

6 more proactive management by the Department on this

7 area.

8

9 Tim.

10

11 MR. SMITH: I'm glad you brought that

12 up, Mike. I mean that's one thing that I think we

13 should consider on the Seward Peninsula is having an

14 experimental area where we remove predators, you know,

15 not by killing, but, you know, what they've been doing

16 is translocating bears from an area and measuring the

17 effects. And I don't know if 22B would be the best

18 area for doing that but pick an area on the Seward

19 Peninsula and let's try it. I mean I think the Seward

20 Peninsula would be an excellent test area for that

21 because we've got quite a bit of data over the long

22 period on the ungulate populations and on the predator

23 populations and we should -- this would be as good a

24 place as any to try predator removals. What they do is

25 they go in and dart the bears, move them to another

26 area, you know, release them unharmed and just see what

27 affect that has on reproduction. I think if you did

28 that in 22B you'd see -- you'd have to do both bears

29 and wolves but you would see a dramatic increase in

30 moose calf survival, that would be my prediction.

31

32 The other species that would really

33 benefit from it would be reindeer, and there's a lot of

34 data on reindeer fawn survival.

35

36 And so I think it might be within this

37 Board's jurisdiction to recommend doing an experiment

38 like that somewhere on the Seward Peninsula.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Any more

41 discussion on the motion.

42

43 (No comments)

44

45 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Someone want to call

46 the question.

47

48 MR. BUCK: Question.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. All those in

 

35

 

1 favor of the motion to continue the closure say aye.

2

3 IN UNISON: Aye.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

6

7 (No opposing votes)

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries. Next

10 one.

11

12 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

13 WCR10-13, closure location is Unit 22D for that portion

14 within the Kougarok, Kuzitrin and Pilgrim River

15 drainages is for moose. Closure dates from September

16 1st to September 14th except by Federally-qualified

17 subsistence residents of Units 22C and 22D.

18

19 Justification for original closure.

20 The Board adopted WP02-34 revising the moose season,

21 harvest limit and restricting harvest to Federally 

22 qualified subsistence users for the conservation of a

23 declining moose population and to provide Federally 

24 qualified subsistence users with an opportunity to

25 harvest moose on Federal public lands in Unit 22D. The

26 Board also adopted Proposal WP02-35, which further

27 restricted moose harvest to rural residents of Unit 22C

28 and 22D based on an ANILCA Section .804 analysis.

29

30 Population estimates of moose in 22D in

31 2006 were 1,565 moose with a confidence interval of 22

32 percent giving the range 1,208 to 1,929 and in the

33 Kuzitrin River drainage specifically the population

34 estimate was 966 moose with a 29 percent confidence

35 interval, that gives a range of 687 to 1,246, which is

36 still below the ADF&G management goal of increasing and

37 stabilizing the total Unit 22D population to 2,000 - 

38 between 2,000 and 2,500 moose.

39

40 In March 2009 ADF&G completed spring

41 recruitment trend counts in Eastern Unit 22D including

42 portions of Kuzitrin, Kougarok and Pilgrim River

43 drainages and classified 700 moose and found seven

44 calves to 100 adults for six percent recruitment.

45 ADF&G conducted sex and age composition surveys in the

46 fall of 2010 and data is still be compiled and will

47 conduct population surveys in the spring of 2011.

48

49 Moose harvest within the affected area

50 has remained relatively stable for the years 2004 to

 

36

 

1 2008 with a fall harvest between 34 to 44 moose. The

2 State fall season is closed by emergency order when 58

3 bulls are harvested and the harvest quota for this

4 portion of Unit 22D is not consistently filled.

5

6 The OSM recommendation is maintain the

7 closure. The Unit 22D moose population for that

8 portion within the Kuzitrin, Kougarok and Pilgrim River

9 drainages appears to be stabilizing, however, the

10 population is still below ADF&G management goals and

11 the harvest is generally done by local residents. The

12 2008 bull/cow ratio of 33 bulls to 100 cows is much

13 improved from the 2005 bull/cow ratio 20 bulls to 100

14 cows which may be attributed to the reduction in moose

15 harvest due to the closure and due to the harvest quota

16 that is in place, however the calf/cow ratio in 2008 of

17 10 calves to 100 cows is still a concern making

18 recruitment too low to increase the population size.

19 Therefore, Federal public lands should remain closed to

20 non-Federally-qualified users for the conservation of a

21 healthy population and to allow the continuation of

22 subsistence uses of moose.

23

24 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I guess the

27 statement that catches my eye in addition, and somewhat

28 contradicts your support to maintain the closure is

29 that the State fall season is closed by emergency order

30 when 58 bulls are harvested and the harvest quota for

31 this portion of Unit 22D is not consistently filled.

32 However, part of the reason it's not consistently

33 filled is because the Department doesn't give us enough

34 time to hunt and that should be altered.

35

36 Let's see, Letty, I got to probably ask

37 you, ANS figures for this portion of Unit 22D and are

38 we meeting those?

39

40 MS. HUGHES: To the Chair. I believe

41 that, you know, the ANS portion is for all of Unit 22,

42 so we're looking at between 250 and 500 moose.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any questions.

45

46 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair, I need to

47 comment on that. The Kougarok, Kuzitrin and Pilgrim

48 River drainages, I think right now are being inhabited

49 by at least three roving wolf packs which kind of

50 converge around the Davidson River landing area.

 

37

 

1 Pretty much they keep their separate territories but

2 pretty much they have the same boundary mark.

3

4 As I stated maybe about five years ago

5 one winter we road the Agiapuk, the Kuzitrin River

6 drainages, all the rivers and creeks that kind of drain

7 into them and we counted pretty much over 20 moose

8 carcasses that were killed by wolves, just within that

9 one -- so many months I worked, not patrolling but

10 riding for animals, so they -- they do pretty much

11 affect the moose population. Last year towards Bunker

12 Hill we counted about 70 to 80 moose congregated in one

13 strip so they were being harassed by wolves.

14

15 Wolf harvest right now I think for

16 Teller and Brevig is that we do not have enough

17 adequate snow cover and the wolves that do converge

18 around the Davidson River area, they come down to feed

19 on Kougarok Reindeer Herd, so that's their food source

20 that they've been kind of claiming along with the

21 bears. When you don't disturb their feeding patterns

22 for a number of years these animals will claim the

23 reindeer herd as their own and will defend and when

24 possible defend their food source, so that's what we're

25 kind of looking at. For the moose population in these

26 areas I think it's -- like I said, might be constant,

27 they're migrating to different areas due to maybe smoke

28 or other activities but moose has been a very important

29 food source for our people, at least, number one being

30 reindeer but reindeer being kind of pushed aside

31 because of their availability, moose is pretty much

32 predominate meat source that they get -- that they look

33 forward to within the area.

34

35 But I think that needs -- like I said

36 predation is a big factor in the numbers.

37

38 We don't use the harvest animals all

39 the time, it's just a matter of access when -- when the

40 seasons are right for the residents back home.

41

42 Thank you.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, anybody want to

45 make a motion on this closure.

46

47 MR. SMITH: I have a question first.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, go ahead.

50

 

38

 

1 MR. SMITH: Does the Department have

2 any plans to do any of the type of research that would

3 be needed to determine what the problem is with moose

4 populations in Unit 22?

5

6 MS. HUGHES: Through the Chair to Mr.

7 Smith. I think I understand what you're saying. What

8 we've done the last five years, we just finished up a

9 project doing, you know, calf weight in Unit 22B and C.

10 We've done that the last five years. And that's -- and

11 then other for our basic, you know, composition and

12 surveys and so forth, as of right now what further on

13 what we want to do other than habitat surveys, we don't

14 have any plans.

15

16 MR. SMITH: Just follow up on that

17 Mike.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes.

20

21 MR. SMITH: Just to follow up on that,

22 I haven't looked carefully at your calf weight study

23 data but it seems to me that -- my impression was that

24 it didn't show that calf weight was a factor.

25

26 MS. HUGHES: That's correct. And I

27 don't have the data with me so I'm just going off of my

28 memory here, that, you know, during that five year

29 project there was two years of very high snowfall, you

30 know, like an average of like 112, 114 inches, and even

31 then, even though the calf weights were a little bit

32 lower, I mean we still didn't see for the next year

33 anything that was significant that it was detrimental

34 to the population. But it's a really good, you know,

35 base off of trend line that we can use for later on if

36 we want to go back and look at and see, well, what else

37 is going on with the population, or we see any changes.

38

39 MR. SMITH: I'd just like to follow up.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

42

43 MR. SMITH: I mean I think this is the

44 root of our problem is, we don't have any useful

45 scientific information for managing moose. You know,

46 we know the moose populations are down and not

47 recovering, we don't know what the problem is. We

48 really don't know even -- we don't even have good

49 guesses on what the problem is, except predation, you

50 know, predation stands out as one thing where, you

 

39

 

1 know, you know that wolves and bears are eating

2 something and we also know that there are a lot less

3 prey species out there. There's a lot fewer reindeer

4 on the Seward Peninsula than there were 25 or 30 years

5 ago. What else are there, they have to eat something,

6 they're meat eaters.

7

8 The only thing I can think of that

9 would have any benefit for our moose populations would

10 be predator reduction.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, I'm still

13 waiting for a motion.

14

15 (Pause)

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I can't make one.

18

19 MR. MARTIN: Move.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right motion to

22 support the closure?

23

24 MR. MARTIN: (Nods affirmatively)

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Do I hear a second.

27

28 MR. BUCK: Seconded.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seconded by Peter

31 Buck. Any discussion.

32

33 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair. To Ms. Cole.

34 I think how do you -- or maybe to the State, how do you

35 determine how much moose should be in a certain area,

36 like subunit 22B? They stated that it should be

37 between 1,000 to 1,200, is that numbers that can

38 survive or live on that certain tract of land, like 22B

39 or is that for the whole subunit, or for the whole

40 unit, on how much a certain number should be on that

41 subunit?

42

43 MS. BROWN: Through the Chair. Mr.

44 Seetot. That is actually an ADF&G objective so I'm

45 going to have to pass that to Letty.

46

47 MS. HUGHES: Through the Chair to Mr.

48 Seetot. That's a good question. And I think you're

49 referring to the ANS number. That's actually something

50 that comes up through the Board of Game of what's

 

40

 

1 amount necessary, you know, for, you know, users within

2 22. And so that's for all of Unit 22 and then for

3 management purposes, you know, we break it down into

4 what would be harvest rate for each subunit such as 22B

5 or 22D, the Kuzitrin, and then, you know, we also base

6 it off of, you know, moose surveys as well that we're

7 doing.

8

9 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

12

13 MR. BUCK: I'm saying probably for the

14 research being done to study an area of well the unit

15 that has the least amount of game should be studied by

16 ADF&G so that we could have our resources right up

17 there, all the information there so we can make

18 decisions. But the unit with the least amount of game

19 should be studied first so that we can know what's

20 going on.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any more discussion on

23 the motion.

24

25 MR. SMITH: I'd just like to follow up

26 what you said, Peter. I think we just heard that the

27 Department's not going to do any of those types of

28 studies. They're going to continue to do counts and

29 document numbers as well as possible, but studies to

30 determine what's causing the numbers to stay low are

31 not in the near future. I think that's the way I

32 understood it.

33

34 MR. KEYES: This is Anthony. Maybe we

35 could make a suggestion for them to start studying the

36 animals while they're doing the counts during every

37 springtime.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, does

40 someone want to call the question.

41

42 MR. SEETOT: Question.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All those in favor of

45 the motion to support the continued closure say aye.

46

47 IN UNISON: Aye.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Opposed.

50

 

41

 

1 (No opposing votes)

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries. Okay,

4 we'll do the next one for 22D and then we'll take a

5 short break.

6

7 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

8 WCR10-14 is on Page 50 of your book. Unit 22D for that

9 portion west of the Tisuk River drainage and Canyon

10 Creek and it's for moose. The closure dates are

11 December 1st through December 31st.

12

13 Justification for original closure. In

14 May 2002 the Federal Subsistence Board adopted WP02-34

15 to revise the moose season, harvest limit and restrict

16 harvest to Federally-qualified subsistence users for

17 the conservation of a declining moose population and to

18 provide Federally-qualified subsistence users with an

19 opportunity to harvest moose on Federal public lands in

20 Unit 22D. The Board also adopted WP02-35, which

21 further restricted moose harvest to the rural residents

22 of Unit 22C and 22D based on an ANILCA Section .804

23 analysis.

24

25 Current resource abundance related to

26 management objective. Unfortunately specific survey

27 data is not available for this portion of Unit 22D,

28 that portion west of the Tisuk River drainage and

29 Canyon Creek but only for Unit 22D as a whole. ADF&G

30 does not have specific population objectives for Tisuk

31 River drainage due to very poor moose habitat. ADF&G

32 did conduct sex and age compositions within 22D in the

33 fall of 2010 and those results are still being compiled

34 and population surveys in spring 2011 will be conducted

35 shortly.

36

37 The current survey efforts by ADF&G

38 combine the Tisuk River drainage with the Kuzitrin,

39 Kougarok and Pilgrim River drainages with the focus on

40 the latter, due to the Tisuk River drainage having such

41 poor moose habitat.

42

43 There has been no reported harvest

44 under the Federal permit system for this portion of

45 Unit 22D. The moose population for this portion of

46 Unit 22D continues to exist in low numbers and at a low

47 density. While there is little data regarding that

48 portion west of the Tisuk River drainage and Canyon

49 Creek there are no indications that there has been any

50 increases in moose population to justify non 

 

42

 

1 subsistence harvest, therefore the closure should

2 maintained.

3

4 The OSM recommendation is to maintain

5 the closure.

6

7 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any questions. Tim.

10

11 MR. SMITH: I just have a question,

12 what land is involved here, what Federal lands are

13 there?

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You got a map there

16 all rolled up.

17

18 MR. SMITH: This one?

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah. And that should

21 show you what Federal lands are in that particular

22

23 MR. SMITH: Okay.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, there's not a

26 lot but there's a little bit there.

27

28 MR. SMITH: I see it now. I see it

29 now, yeah, there's a little bit.

30

31 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair. I think around

32 that area for around the Tisuk and the Canyon River

33 area there's very little willows and something for them

34 to kind of hide in and feed on the -- other than the

35 river and creek systems around there, that portion is

36 rarely used by residents of Teller and Brevig, other

37 than the harvest of wildlife -- I mean other than

38 harvest of waterfowl due to accessibility and then, you

39 know, to -- it doesn't support that much moose other

40 than probably a stopping place, their migration from

41 one area to another.

42

43 But there are some moose in that area

44 but due to the terrain it's really -- I really haven't

45 used that for moose or muskox harvest because you just

46 don't, you know, go down there and say oh that terrain

47 is too rough I can't make it, so we harvest animals

48 there that are better for us to harvest -- I mean for

49 -- better terrain, economics, weather factors, those

50 all come into being and that area isn't -- or hasn't

 

43

 

1 been used by me for -- other than other uses. But I

2 have harvested -- and moose other than maybe just

3 during the early fall season when you're berry picking,

4 you know, when opportunity arises then you'll harvest

5 something that you haven't harvested for the coming

6 season but that terrain offers very little brows for

7 moose other than the ones that are probably there or on

8 their way to other places.

9

10 Thank you.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Any other

13 discussion.

14

15 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair. I'll make a

16 motion to support the closure for that portion of Tisuk

17 and Canyon River area.

18

19 MR. KEYES: Second.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Motion by

22 Elmer, second by Tony. Any discussion.

23

24 (No comments)

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: If not call the

27 question.

28

29 MR. BUCK: Question.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Question. All those

32 in favor of the motion to support the continued closure

33 say aye.

34

35 IN UNISON: Aye.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

38

39 (No opposing votes)

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries. Okay,

42 folks let's do about 10 minutes.

43

44 (Off record)

45

46 (On record)

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, we're back to

49 work.

50

 

44

 

1 REPORTER: Mike.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Back to work, and

4 Cole, you can continue with 16.

5

6 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

7 Wildlife Closure Review 10-16 is in Unit 22E and it is

8 for moose. The closure dates are August 1st through

9 March 15th.

10

11 Justification for original closure.

12 Federal public lands were closed by the Federal

13 Subsistence Board due to conservation concerns for

14 declining moose population and to provide Federally 

15 qualified subsistence users an opportunity to harvest a

16 limited number of moose on Federal public lands in the

17 affected area of Unit 22E.

18

19 The Board adopted WP02-34, which

20 narrowed the moose season, revised the harvest to bull

21 only and restricted the harvest to Federally-qualified

22 subsistence users within Unit 22D and Unit 22E based on

23 conservation concerns for the moose population and to

24 provide for the continuation of subsistence uses of

25 moose on Federal public lands in the units.

26

27 ADF&G plans to conduct population

28 surveys for Unit 22E in spring 2011 so the most current

29 population estimates of moose in 22E were conducted in

30 2006. An estimated 587 moose with a confidence

31 interval of 18 percent with a range of 420 to 778,

32 which is well above the ADF&G management goal of 200 to

33 250 moose.

34

35 The sec and age composition survey was

36 scheduled in the fall of 2010 and a population survey

37 scheduled for spring 2011 so we'll have more current

38 data available soon.

39

40 The recruitment rate in 2006 was 18

41 percent with 22 calves at 23.5 percent plus or minus

42 confidence interval.

43

44 The annual harvest in Unit 22E has been

45 relatively low and hunter effort typically occurs in

46 the first general harvest season between August and

47 December. Between 2004 and 2008, the combined average

48 annual hunter success for State and Federal hunters has

49 been approximately 42 percent in Unit 22E. Access by

50 road or river and the use of ATVs and other off-road

 

45

 

1 vehicles allows harvest prior to snowfall although the

2 use of ATV and other off-road activities is not allowed

3 on National Park Service administered lands.

4

5 OSM recommendation is to initiate a

6 proposal to modify or eliminate the closure. In 2010

7 the Federal moose season was extended an additional

8 three months until March 15th and the affects on the

9 moose population in Unit 22E are yet -- are not yet

10 known. Even though the harvest of moose by Federally 

11 qualified subsistence users has historically been

12 small, the new Federal extended season could result in

13 a higher harvest, however, the population trend has

14 shown a high increase of moose in Unit 22E. ADF&G is

15 scheduled to conduct age and sex compositions, they did

16 that in the fall of 2010 and we'll know the data of

17 that soon. Population surveys in spring 2011 will

18 provide more current information on the moose

19 population.

20

21 Therefore, after these are completed a

22 proposal can be analyzed to determine if the population

23 is still above management goals and warrants the

24 removal of the closure on Federal lands.

25

26 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, so

29

30 REPORTER: Mike.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, thank you. So

33 you're saying we should do the proposal to remove the

34 closure but there'll be new information available when

35 that goes before the Board?

36

37 MS. BROWN: That's correct. Right now

38 the trend has shown an increase in that unit from

39 previous census, and so if the trend continues after

40 this most recent information then most likely the

41 proposal will show a recommendation to lift the

42 closure. But we won't know that unless we go through

43 the proposal process and we can utilize this data that

44 has just been collected in the fall of 2010.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, when's the

47 Federal Subsistence Board take on this proposal?

48

49 MS. BROWN: If you submit the proposal

50 within this cycle, today, with what we're doing here or

 

46

 

1 in the near future, before March 24th, when the

2 deadline stops, it'll be next January that the Federal

3 Subsistence Board will address it.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, almost a year.

6

7 Well, then we get a chance to go over

8 it again in October?

9

10 MS. BROWN: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Letty, what's

13 different about 22E that things are getting so much

14 better there but not in some other places, or at least

15 not as much?

16

17 MS. HUGHES: To the Chair. You know,

18 all I can tell you is, I mean, for why we don't really

19 know, I mean the harvest, overall harvest up there is

20 fairly low, so there's not a lot of hunting pressure up

21 in 22E. So we can assume that habitat's, you know,

22 well, but without doing any further studies, you know,

23 I can't say.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: At the State level

26 this hunt is currently a harvest ticket hunt, correct,

27 the whole of 22E, for moose?

28

29 MS. HUGHES: That is correct, for

30 residents.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

33

34 MS. HUGHES: Non-residents require a

35 registration permit.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, I see that now.

38 I'm assuming 22E was a registration permit for

39 residents at some point in the past, I've forgotten,

40 when did it become a harvest ticket hunt for residents?

41

42 MS. HUGHES: I do not know that answer.

43 From the time I've been here I know it's been a harvest

44 ticket.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, harvest ticket.

47

48 MR. GORN: Through the Chair. This is

49 Tony Gorn. I'm the Unit 22 area biologist. So a

50 couple things have happened up in 22E. Letty, I think,

 

47

 

1 actually did a nice job in describing partly up in 22E

2 why the moose population is as high as it is, and other

3 areas the Seward Peninsula have declined. I mean

4 partly we really don't know.

5

6 But one of the things that we did, I

7 believe it was in 2003, is we worked through the

8 Advisory Committees, we worked through the RAC, and we

9 worked with the villages of Shishmaref and Wales to

10 shorten the moose season. That was after one of our

11 counts found less than 200 moose up in the area. And

12 at that point we tried to curtail the harvest of

13 antlerless moose. Through some meetings with the

14 communities up there, we began to understand that there

15 was some level of both reported, but also unreported

16 anterless moose harvest so we changed the season and

17 bag limit to allow -- to continue allow moose hunting

18 opportunity but only for antlered bulls.

19

20 And then the second thing you just

21 asked about registration permits and harvest tickets,

22 up in 22E that's always been a green harvest ticket.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, it never did

25 go

26

27 MR. GORN: It's never been a

28 registration hunt.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, interesting, okay.

31 Any other questions. Tim.

32

33 MR. SMITH: I have a question for you.

34 How much

35

36 REPORTER: Tim. Tim.

37

38 MR. SMITH: impact do you

39 think

40

41 MR. SMITH: Tim, microphone.

42

43 MR. SMITH: the guided bear

44 hunting operations out of Shishmaref had to do with the

45 population there?

46

47 MR. GORN: Through the Chair to Mr.

48 Smith. At this point I would say it's really had

49 little effect. There's a couple things going on.

50

 

48

 

1 First of all, that population certainly

2 does seem to be above our current management goal. You

3 guys are all familiar with 22E, we're going to go back

4 there this spring and count moose. It'll be very

5 interesting to see what we find because 22E does not

6 have a lot of winter moose habitat. So the idea that

7 there were 600 moose up there in 2006 was a surprise, I

8 think to a lot of people.

9

10 To answer Mr. Smith's question, I

11 really think at this point the non-resident or the

12 guided non-resident opportunities had little impact.

13 And that's probably due just to the remoteness of the

14 area. Back in 2001 when we had these wide sweeping

15 regulatory changes related to moose, we immediately

16 started to see some of the moose hunting effort that

17 was based on the Nome road system shift into 22E. But

18 even with that, there's just not that many people that

19 will put in the miles to get into 22E. You know, it's

20 remote and it's tough to get to.

21

22 The other thing that is potentially

23 curtailing some of the non-resident hunting effort is

24 even though the population is at approximately 600

25 moose right now, the non-resident hunting opportunity

26 is limited to 10 registration permits. So although

27 there is opportunity there really isn't that much.

28

29 MR. SMITH: Maybe I didn't state my

30 question clearly.

31

32 I was wondering what the guided bear

33 hunting, what's been the guided bear harvest up there,

34 or just the total bear harvest in 22E in the last few

35 years?

36

37 MR. GORN: Through the Chair to Mr.

38 Smith. I guess as I sit here right now I can't tell

39 you what just that harvest is. We give out 12 permits

40 a year for 22E; do you know off the top of your head

41 what it is?

42

43 MS. HUGHES: Yeah, through the Chair to

44 Mr. Smith. For the brown bear guiding up in 22E, the

45 permits that -- the drawing permit that we give out is

46 for 22D and 22E, so most of the guiding occurs up in

47 22D. So the harvest of brown bears up in 22E might be

48 one or two a year, if that. It's really low.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It's also limited by

 

49

 

1 the Federal land, a guide can't operate on the

2

3 MR. SMITH: Oh.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Federal land

6 either. There's still no concessions available for the

7 Federal lands there.

8

9 MR. SMITH: I have another question.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

12

13 MR. SMITH: One thing that occurs to

14 me, if you're going to have an extended moose hunting

15 season and you open it up to non-local residents, is

16 there a problem -- is there a possibility that people

17 will be hunting both muskoxen and moose at the same

18 time?

19

20 MR. GORN: Through the Chair to Member

21 Smith. I wouldn't use the phrase that it's a problem.

22 To this point it's an opportunity. But the -- I'll try

23 to keep this short for the spirit of time here.

24

25 But, you know, what we found with our

26 muskox hunts, going back to the Tier II days, is that,

27 I think we had inappropriately set harvest rates too

28 high in those early years. In some of those years, on

29 paper, we were suggesting that we could harvest up to

30 an eight percent harvest rate and I think what we've

31 seen, what we've quickly found through census efforts

32 and composition data, is that that's just not

33 sustainable. So within the last couple years we've

34 lowered the harvest rates in all areas on the Seward

35 Peninsula including 22E. And up in 22E right now we're

36 at a six percent harvest rate. Even at that six

37 percent harvest rate, we still don't reach harvest

38 quotas for muskox. So I think that if we were in a

39 situation where maybe we had moose quotas and lower

40 muskox quotas that were being met every year, you know,

41 then we might see a problem, but at this point we just

42 haven't experienced that.

43

44 It's actually been the opposite.

45

46 What we hear from residents that live

47 in Wales and Shishmaref is that they'd like to see more

48 muskox harvested in the area even though we're not

49 getting the current quota, they're still very open to

50 muskox hunting opportunity and it certainly seems like

 

50

 

1 the area is -- the residents are also pleased, at least

2 at this point, with moose hunting opportunity.

3

4 MR. SMITH: Just one, I'm still trying

5 to get at -- my concern is I wouldn't want to really

6 increase the wintertime harvest of moose in 22E. I'm

7 just wondering potentially, how many additional hunters

8 do you think would be up there hunting muskox that

9 would also be qualified to hunt moose if this proposal

10 were adopted? I mean how many hunters are we talking

11 about, not only qualified to hunt on Federal

12 subsistence -- in a Federal subsistence hunt, without a

13 closure, that would also be able to potentially hunt

14 muskoxen during the open season.

15

16 MR. GORN: Yeah, through the Chair to

17 Mr. Smith. You know a lot of the environment that we

18 work in is speculation.

19

20 MR. SMITH: Right.

21

22 MR. GORN: But I'm really not

23 comfortable sticking my neck out and guessing how many

24 additional hunters, you know, we might see. It's just

25 -- there's too many things that I don't have control of

26 for me to even make an educated guess. But certainly

27 the opportunity would be there.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, Tim, actually

30 that opportunity has been in existence for a little

31 while now, I believe. Even though there's -- we got a

32 closure on Federal land, there's plenty of non-Federal

33 land in 22E that's been available to Alaska residents

34 from anywhere in the state during a winter season for

35 both the moose and the muskox so, you know, people can

36 participate in that hunt for two species, except not on

37 Federal land. So the question is, in the past, so far,

38 how much participation have you seen by, we'll say, the

39 non-local people, in this wintertime, either or both,

40 moose and muskox hunting?

41

42 MR. GORN: To the Chair. Certainly

43 there are examples of falltime combination hunts in

44 22E. I do not know and I'll make my statement and kind

45 of look at my assistant, I am not aware of any January

46 combination muskox moose hunts. Really what we see in

47 22E for muskox harvest is we're just entering right now

48 the time of the year when people really start to go

49 out, you know, days have been short, it's been windy

50 and cold, for -- since January 1st in 22E, and we're

 

51

 

1 just kind of getting into the time now where days are

2 going to get longer, there's more light. We see a real

3 pulse of muskox harvest in 22E really beginning the

4 last 10 days of the season in March.

5

6 MR. SMITH: My concern comes in, Mike,

7 is we talk about extending the moose hunt into the

8 spring and, you know, January hunting, you got to

9 really want them, but it's not true in, you know,

10 March, it's a gentlemen's hunt. I can see people

11 potentially going up and coming in and hunting with

12 Clifford and Brian and taking a moose and a muskox at

13 the same time, which, I think could potentially

14 increase the harvest quite a bit.

15

16 You know, maybe I'm misunderstanding

17 what's proposed, but I wouldn't like to see that

18 happen. I don't think we should drastically increase

19 the moose harvest up there.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Let me make sure I'm

22 going to understand this correctly, though. It's only

23 the Federal season that is open from August 1st to

24 March 15th. What I've got here in my book is that all

25 the State seasons are closed for moose by January 31st.

26

27 MR. SMITH: Right.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Even if we

30 remove this closure, a non-local resident won't be able

31 to participate in a Federal hunt. Now, Tom, am I

32 correct with that?

33

34 MR. KRON: Yes.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: People who live in

37 Anchorage and Fairbanks are not Federally-qualified

38 subsistence users.

39

40 MR. SMITH: Oh, okay.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: They cannot

43 participate in Federal hunts under any circumstances.

44 Now, if the State season mirrored the Federal season,

45 then, of course, they could. So, you know, your

46 concern is invalid for this particular instance because

47 the March 15th date isn't available to non-local

48 people.

49

50 MR. SMITH: I stand corrected and so I

 

52

 

1 would move then to adopt the motion to remove the

2 closure.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, motion on the

5 floor.

6

7 MR. KEYES: Second.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seconded. Any

10 discussion. go ahead.

11

12 MR. ENINGOWUK: Yes, this is Fred.

13 Just a quick discussion on the reporting requirements.

14 We get our harvest tickets from the State, right, and

15 that season's closed on January 31st, where do we

16 report when we do the Federal hunt, between February

17 and March 31st?

18

19 MR. SEETOT: March 15th.

20

21 MR. ENINGOWUK: Or, yeah, March 15th.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: That's a Federal

24 question, the Federal guys get to answer it.

25

26 MS. BROWN: You can report that to the

27 land manager, the biologist there, or you could report

28 it to our permit system.

29

30 MR. ENINGOWUK: And do we still use the

31 State permit?

32

33 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom, you better step

34 in and help here.

35

36 MR. ENINGOWUK: Because I'm not aware

37 of any Federal permits to hunt moose. Do we use a

38 State permit?

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Letty.

41

42 MS. HUGHES: Through the Chair to Fred.

43 Yes, unless otherwise brought up by, you know, the

44 Federal offices, it would be on the State general

45 harvest ticket. So you would -- if you were hunting in

46 February, you know, you would still need to have the

47 green ticket and you would fill that out and mail it in

48 as if, you know, you would any other time.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I'm going to disagree

 

53

 

1 with that Letty. If you got a green harvest ticket in

2 your pocket and you notch February something on it and

3 send it in and the State goes over it, they're going to

4 say you harvested a moose out of season.

5

6 MR. ENINGOWUK: Uh-huh.

7

8 MR. GORN: Mr. Chair. You're raising a

9 very interesting point, and, Fred, that's an excellent

10 question. But actually what's happened in Unit 22,

11 where -- I'll try to be tactful, but the phrase I'm

12 going to use is, essentially out here the State

13 programs eclipse the Federal programs. There's more

14 State land out here. Often times there isn't a strong

15 Federal presence, permits are -- Federal permits are

16 either unavailable or they're difficult to get. So

17 historically residents have used a green harvest

18 ticket. It's flat out confusing at times and it really

19 would be nice if there were Federal permits available,

20 Federal reporting agencies to report to, but that's

21 just not always the case. So if a person goes out,

22 they need something in their pocket, that's what I

23 always tell them. If you go out, you're probably not

24 going to get checked, but if you do, you got to have

25 something in your pocket, take a green harvest ticket,

26 and report on there. And then what happens is we end

27 up sorting all that out after the season. You know,

28 who -- was this moose a State harvested moose or was it

29 a Federal harvested moose.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, that looks a

32 little problematic because any Alaska resident can use

33 that green harvest ticket and then you've got the

34 potential, however, small, of non-qualified Federal

35 users hunting under a Federal hunt with a green harvest

36 ticket in their pocket and now whoever's going to

37 analyze that data down the road has to decide if that

38 person actually lived in the area and was a qualified

39 hunter. I'm a little surprised that Mr. Adkisson

40 hasn't jumped up here because usually the Park Service

41 deals with some of these Federal permits.

42

43 Cole, go ahead.

44

45 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

46 There's just a couple things I want to clarify to make

47 sure I understand Member Smith, to make sure we're on

48 the same page with this.

49

50 The recommendation is to initiate a

 

54

 

1 proposal to modify or eliminate the closure. So if

2 this doesn't eliminate the closure we have to still go

3 through the process of that. Within initiating a

4 proposal, what we can do is to try and clarify what's

5 been going on here, what has been brought up by the

6 Council, is that we could put in a Federal permit is

7 recommended within the proposal for this time, to get

8 away from it. We have completely restructured our

9 Federal permit system database, it is completely a

10 different system, it is much more user friendly. It is

11 something that can be administered with a lot more ease

12 than what has been done in the past. So that is

13 something that when we develop the proposal, if you

14 guys decide to initiate the proposal, to remove or

15 modify the closure, we can develop that within the

16 proposal.

17

18 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Welcome to the show.

21

22 MR. PAPPAS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23 George Pappas, Department of Fish and Game, Subsistence

24 Liaison Team. You hit it right, a big point statewide

25 that we have with the dual management challenges, where

26 Federal regulations will require a permit but does not

27 provide a permit. Additionally, Federal regulation

28 allows -- it basically indicates that if the

29 restrictions on the State permit are -- it's more

30 restrictive than the Federal regulations, then the

31 Federal regulations supersede. The State enforcement

32 efforts disagree with that. A subsistence permit or a

33 hunting license, what have you, authorizes exactly

34 what's in State regulation. Anything beyond that is

35 not authorized. So we've had challenges statewide in

36 areas where we have a permit issued; as you said,

37 someone's hunting in late February with a State harvest

38 ticket, that's a problem for the State enforcement.

39 But we don't want to lose the data. Both sides,

40 Federal and State do not want to lose the data involved

41 with the hunting.

42

43 So, as Cole just mentioned, if you do

44 come up with a proposal to modify the season to allow

45 for additional hunting or what have you, to actually

46 install some type of permitting system. We're all

47 trying together towards making sure all the data's put

48 together and the subsistence user is not at risk in the

49 field because they didn't understand which permit to

50 have.

 

55

 

1 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, thanks, George.

4 My experience with Federal permits is all muskox and

5 those permits are always given out by the particular

6 land agency involved.

7

8 Mr. Adkisson. I know you give out some

9 muskox permits, do you give out moose permits for like

10 22D, there's some Federal permits there, isn't there?

11

12 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Counsel

13 members. Ken Adkisson. In terms of the Federal moose

14 permits, I don't believe there's been a Federal moose

15 permit issued for a long, long time on the Seward Penn.

16 Basically as far as I know it's gone strictly to using

17 State permits. And most of those areas where I think

18 you'll find language in the regs are probably BLM

19 lands.

20

21 But in terms of the moose, the question

22 of the 22E moose, we could issue Federal permits.

23

24 There's some merit to trying to keep

25 one reporting system and one data source and, you know,

26 as long as we can work with some of the sort of

27 fuzziness or loose ends, you know, that have been

28 brought up, it's probably, you know, worth trying to

29 stay with that. But if it becomes unworkable for any

30 number of reasons, we could get, you know, start

31 issuing Federal permits for that hunt.

32

33 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I know -- just a

34 second Cole -- I'm pretty sure that occasionally tribal

35 agencies, like the tribal council or the IRA Council

36 issue Federal permits in certain areas; apparently

37 that's not happening in Shishmaref or Wales for either

38 the moose or the muskox hunts?

39

40 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Yes, we have

41 tried that a few times and sometimes it works and

42 sometimes it doesn't work very well. And the question

43 of where does all of the, you know, getting the data

44 back and where does it go sometimes can be problems.

45 The other problem with that is, is that, you know,

46 since we've gone to this on line system, unless we

47 still, you know, print up a huge bulk of permits,

48 without any kind of really, you know, numbers and then

49 go up and assign, you know, assign them to keep manual

50 logs, you know, that doesn't seem to work very well

 

56

 

1 with that system of letting, you know, like the IRA

2 help us assist in issuing permits and for

3 accountability back into the on line system, so this

4 year we've stopped working with the communities that

5 way to try it and see how it worked and frankly it

6 didn't work.

7

8 So, you know, we're left with how to

9 get permits back into the hands of those communities

10 that aren't Nome or aren't road connected or not well

11 plugged into the system.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Go ahead.

14

15 MR. BUCK: Okay, this is the first time

16 I've heard of the permits for moose in this area. I

17 think that the -- I didn't know it, I know my IRA

18 didn't know it and the other IRAs didn't know about

19 this Federal permit because they had -- we -- I think

20 there's occasions where they do need Federal permit for

21 the IRAs especially during potlucks and also providing

22 meat for the elders. That's what they'd like -- what

23 I'd like to see. And this is the first time I've heard

24 of the Federal permit for moose and I'd like to have

25 the IRAs and traditional councils notified that this is

26 a possible process.

27

28 Thank you.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Cole.

31

32 MS. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

33 Buck. I just want to clarify that that was a

34 recommendation, that is not currently what is being

35 done. That it is an option to put that into the new

36 proposal to have this change into a Federal permit as

37 an option to try and make this an easier process.

38

39 MR. BUCK: Okay, I understand.

40

41 MS. BROWN: So the other thing is that

42 I would like to inform the Council of what has been

43 done with the Federal permit system within the last

44 year. It has been completely overhauled. And, now,

45 finally, through a lot of effort between the Feds and

46 the State to talk to each other, with what the

47 databases are -- before the two databases could not

48 talk to each other, they were completely different, and

49 now there's been an memorandum of understanding, that

50 the information is seamlessly transferred, or will be

 

57

 

1 within the next year, to try and get past this, if it

2 comes through on a State harvest ticket and it's a

3 Federal user, and outside of a State season, you know,

4 what's going to happen with that. This is taking steps

5 towards that.

6

7 Now, this has just been done so it

8 hasn't been actually implemented in other areas outside

9 of, really, Unit 13, it's been a test area, the

10 Fairbanks area has been a test area, but this is

11 something that's coming down the road that hopefully

12 will get to the point where we're not going to have all

13 these problems of not understanding what one hand is

14 doing and the other hand is doing.

15

16 Mr. Chair.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, Tom, I'm going

19 to cut you off here. Alex I'd like to add this Federal

20 permit stuff to the agenda and we're going to discuss

21 that as soon as finish with this last wildlife

22 proposal. So at this time let's get back to the

23 wildlife proposal.

24

25 I think I got a little bit out of order

26 on the procedure here. And we already have a motion - 

27 I've already forgotten -- we already have a motion on

28 the floor, but before we go any further with that

29 motion, I need to follow a step by step procedure to

30 allow various comments. So we've had the analysis from

31 OSM.

32

33 MR. SMITH: You still need a second

34 Mike, you don't have one.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, well

37

38 REPORTER: Yes, you do. Yes, you have

39 a second.

40

41 MR. KEYES: I seconded it.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Do I?

44

45 REPORTER: Yes, you have a second.

46

47 MR. SMITH: Oh, okay.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay. All right,

50 so we'll go with -- not yet -- I got to follow this

 

58

 

1 procedure, I think, so that we do it properly.

2

3 All right. So after Cole's analysis we

4 get comments from ADF&G, Letty, is anything still need

5 to be said that hasn't already been said?

6

7 MS. HUGHES: To the Chair. To the

8 Council members. No.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I think actually you

11 get to either -- no, we'll wait until October.

12

13 Okay, go ahead.

14

15 MR. SMITH: You know, I made the motion

16 to adopt this but I'm assuming, and I guess I need to

17 clarify, but I'm assuming that this is just to get the

18 process started and we'll have another chance to

19 consider it. Because one thing that came out in all

20 the questions is there's an awful lot of unknowns and

21 before I would really support allowing non-local people

22 to hunt in the wintertime and spring up there, I'd want

23 to know -- have a better idea of what the impact might

24 be. Because I could see, potentially, you could take a

25 lot of moose in March if there's going to people up

26 there hunting in March and the moose season's open,

27 potentially you could take quite a few moose and I

28 wouldn't want to do that. But if it's just -- all

29 we're going to do is create some opportunity for

30 people, for local people I'm all for it.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Alex.

33

34 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. I think in order

35 to be on the safe side I think it would be appropriate

36 to ask if there's any other agency

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I will. I'm getting

39 there.

40

41 MR. NICK: or organizations

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I got your list.

44

45 MR. NICK: Okay.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So ADF&G's

48 done. Now, are there any other agencies, I'll consider

49 that government agencies that wish to comment on this

50 closure.

 

59

 

1 (No comments)

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. And then the

4 next, is any organizations, Nome Eskimo, Kawerak,

5 anybody have any comments on the closure.

6

7 (No comments)

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I guess there won't be

10 any written public comments because we haven't got it

11 into the system yet.

12

13 Okay. All right. So now we're back to

14 our deliberations and our action. So for the motion on

15 the floor as to, I guess, we'll make a proposal -- the

16 motion is to submit a proposal to remove the closure,

17 okay, any more discussion.

18

19 MR. KEYES: Yes.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

22

23 MR. KEYES: My name is Anthony and I'm

24 from Wales.

25

26 The reason why the number of our moose

27 has pretty good number up on it right now is because we

28 don't really go out hunting until towards end of

29 January to March. Weather condition played a heavy big

30 role on us within our region last year and this year.

31 We had now snow up until January. And then when

32 January came around it got too cold, up to now, which

33 is holding us back from going out hunting.

34

35 And to throw in a Federal permit - 

36 well, let me back myself up.

37

38 If I were to hunt with a State permit

39 and I'm on Federal land and I can go no further and I

40 wanted that moose right there on Federal land, we are

41 going to get a slap on the hand. so I think as a

42 suggestion is to start sending out Federal and State

43 permits to the moose vendors in the village, that way

44 we don't have to keep coming back and fight for a

45 Federal permit. Because, you know, the majority of the

46 land that is up in that region right now is Federally

47 covered, majority of it. And on my side is the State,

48 we have State land in our portion of our land.

49

50 What I was trying to say was if Fred

 

60

 

1 carries a State permit and he stumbles on to be on

2 Federal land, you know, I would strongly suggest to

3 have two permits at that time of departure of your

4 village, that way we don't have to go back and say,

5 hey, I got this in Federal land and I didn't have a

6 Federal permit, now I'm going to get slapped on the

7 hand, I think as a suggestion, as I said, I think you

8 should start sending out Federal and State permits

9 every year. And not only that when I wanted to go

10 moose hunting the tickets weren't there yet so I had to

11 write to Juneau to get my hunting license. So as a

12 suggestion I would like to see the State and the

13 Federal start sending out harvest tickets a month

14 earlier before the season opens because we have to go

15 through a whole bunch of ordeal just to get a ticket.

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Any other

18 discussion.

19

20 Peter.

21

22 MR. MARTIN: Mr. Chair. I was

23 approached by one of our hunters just recently about

24 the same issue that Mr. Keyes is talking about. and he

25 had been approached by the State official and told that

26 the State season is closed but I also told him, that

27 the Federal season is open. Now, about the things that

28 Mr. Keyes had just talked about, I think it would be - 

29 I am in favor of what he's proposing. It's not only

30 the moose season but also the waterfowl too. We always

31 have a hard time in the summertime or spring when we go

32 out waterfowl hunting and we need to have a duck stamp

33 from the State and the Federal. And if these are made

34 available to our councils in our communities it'd be

35 very helpful and that way we would not be encountered

36 by the State or the Federal when we are out in the

37 field.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Well, we'll get

40 into a discussion on Federal permits here in a second.

41

42 A motion's on the floor, seconded.

43 Some discussion. Do I hear a question.

44

45 MR. BUCK: Question's been called.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, question's been

48 called.

49

50 All those in favor of the motion to

 

61

 

1 submit a proposal to remove this closure say aye.

2

3 IN UNISON: Aye.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

6

7 (No opposing votes)

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries. Okay,

10 so let's discuss Federal permits.

11

12 Cole and Tom, let me point out what I

13 see is the problem here, it's kind of a problem that

14 doesn't -- well, I could be wrong -- but I'm assuming

15 it doesn't exist very often, and that problem is a

16 Federal season outside of the bounds of the State

17 season. All you got to do is open your book here to

18 that same thing on 22E and you see that the Federal

19 season goes from August 1st to March 15th for moose,

20 but the State season is completely over with on January

21 31st, so we have a approximately six week Federal

22 season that's available to Federally-qualified

23 subsistence users but apparently there's no permit

24 available.

25

26 Since Peter Martin brought it up, I

27 checked the 22A thing. Tony and Letty, is the Federal

28 season January 1st to February 15th for A remainder, is

29 that any different than the State season?

30

31 MS. HUGHES: To the Chair. For our

32 State season it's January 1st through January 31st, and

33 I believe on the Federal side it went through

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It's February 15th.

36

37 MS. HUGHES: February 15th.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So the

40 same problem exists there, and so do you understand

41 what the problem is?

42

43 All right, Tom, go ahead.

44

45 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair, and, again,

46 if you've got your regs book handy, the Handy-Dandy, on

47 Page 12, second column on the right there provides

48 general information. Basically Federal law requires

49 that hunters and trappers have the appropriate State of

50 Alaska issued hunting or trapping license to hunt or

 

62

 

1 trap under the regulations. And in a number of cases

2 the Federal government does have permits, which we

3 provide and require, where those are not required

4 basically the hunter must comply with the State

5 regulations. In the case of 22E, that we were just

6 talking about, the person would have to have a State

7 hunting license and the green tag with them to

8 participate in that two month period. There's not a

9 permit required there at this point. You know there

10 was discussion here about submitting a proposal. If

11 you look at just moose, for example, on Page 102 and

12 103, in some cases, again, over time, based on

13 proposals that have been submitted, there are Federal

14 permits required for certain hunts. Take 22D, that

15 portion west of the Tisuk River drainage and Canyon

16 Creek, in that case there's a Federal permit required.

17 22D, that portion west of the Tisuk River drainage,

18 Canyon Creek, one bull by State registration permit.

19 And then if you move up to 22B west of the Darbys, it's

20 one bull either State or Federal registration permit.

21 So, again, there's variety here based on how these

22 issues have developed over time.

23

24 In a number of cases, you know, we

25 have, through regulations, you know, provided and in

26 working with this Council, with giving deference to the

27 Council, we have provided Federal registration permits,

28 but if they are not a Federal -- if Federal

29 registration permits are not specifically required,

30 and, again, the case that we were just talking about,

31 22E, under Federal regs, all you need is a State

32 license and the green tag to participate in that late

33 winter moose hunt up there, to be legal based on our

34 regs.

35

36 Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hope that helps.

37

38 MR. SMITH: I got something.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

41

42 MR. SMITH: I guess I haven't -- I mean

43 I have to admit I haven't done my homework here, I just

44 noticed that it's a one antlered bull and that really

45 mootifies [sic] the whole issue that, you know, you're

46 not going to find any antlered bulls in February or

47 March so we're not going to do anything, really.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

50

 

63

 

1 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Tim and I went

2 to college together up in Fairbanks in the wildlife

3 management program, but, I guess, just some

4 clarification, he's mostly right. But, again, I think

5 as people know, some of the yearlings might have their

6 antlers during that time of year. You know, the big

7 bulls are going to shed them, but there are going to be

8 a very small portion that would be available but,

9 again, it's very limited.

10

11 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

12

13 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

16

17 MR. BUCK: On Page 102, 103, you'll see

18 the Unit 22B on September 1st to September 14, one bull

19 by State registration permit between September 1st and

20 September 14th, and then if you go to January 1st to

21 January 31st it says one bull by either Federal or

22 State registration permit. The problem I see there is

23 that in the -- in January there is no fat on the moose,

24 it's just about gone. And if you get it in September

25 they've been eating all summer long and they've been

26 eating all fall and we've got the moose in a real good

27 condition so I don't see how that -- that

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, Tom.

30

31 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Just, again,

32 some more historic perspective on the permit issue.

33 You know essentially the Federal Subsistence Management

34 Program, you know, over time has tried to essentially

35 look to the State permit system to address these issues

36 to the extent that was possible, try to keep it as

37 simple as possible for the users. The State, you know,

38 has a large good system throughout the state on these

39 kinds of issues and initially, again, the Federal

40 system had not looked to try to put in permits all over

41 the place for these kinds of issues so we wanted to try

42 to use the State system to the extent we could. In a

43 number of places the State, you know, required that we

44 get our own permits if we're going to do certain

45 things, you know, if we're going to implement proposals

46 that were submitted by the Councils and supported by

47 the Councils and the Board we had to do a permit if we

48 were going to do it. In other cases, the State has

49 allowed us, basically to work with their own permits

50 and their tags, for example. So, again, it varies in a

 

64

 

1 bunch of areas here in Norton Sound and across the

2 state. But, again, I think there have been changes, as

3 Cole mentioned, in the permit system, we've got a

4 better system now than we had and I think there'll be a

5 better capability to provide these kinds of issues in

6 the future.

7

8 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So

11 apparently the Federal people are okay with using the

12 State harvest ticket in this particular case and I

13 guess the responsibility for enforcement just falls

14 upon the enforcement people and they got to decide if

15 the guy's legal to be out there hunting or not. So

16 does everybody understand that, unless specified in

17 your season that a Federal permit's required, you're

18 free to hunt under the Federal regs, with either a

19 State permit or -- go ahead.

20

21 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair. And,

22 again, relative to the issue that you just talked

23 about, the closure review for 22E moose, you basically

24 -- it sounds like you're going to be talking about, you

25 know, the possibility of a proposal here to consider

26 how you'd want to have it opened it and you could

27 specify in that proposal that you want to have this

28 addressed, via a Federal registration permit issue, for

29 example, depending on how exactly you want to deal with

30 the closure.

31

32 Because, again, one of the next issues

33 on your agenda is the proposal, development of

34 proposals for the wildlife side of things.

35

36 So, thank you.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tim.

39

40 MR. SMITH: I got a question for you,

41 Tom. On the mechanics of this, is a person hunting in

42 a Federal hunt required to report his harvest on a

43 State harvest ticket?

44

45 MR. KRON: If -- again, if there's no

46 Federal permit required you're required, again, to have

47 the State license and the State permit in your

48 possession on the hunt.

49

50 MR. SMITH: But the question is, are

 

65

 

1 you required to fill out the harvest report and submit

2 it?

3

4 MR. KRON: Yes. Through the Chair.

5 Mr. Smith.

6

7 MR. SMITH: Okay.

8

9 MR. KRON: You know, I think, again,

10 you know, the basis for all of this resolves around the

11 need to e able to track the harvest, you know, and

12 that's the most important part of the whole drill for

13 the, you know, for the agencies. We want to know what

14 the total harvests are for these populations, spread

15 across Unit 22 and in all of the different units across

16 the state by species.

17

18 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19

20 MR. SMITH: Follow up.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

23

24 MR. SMITH: Well, you know, this is

25 probably a minor issue but it might be a good idea to

26 have a check box on the harvest report to identify if

27 you're taking an animal in a Federal hunt or a State

28 hunt because you'd be using the same report,

29 potentially -- I mean people like to have accurate

30 data. It would be nice to know whether the animal was

31 taken under Federal rules or State rules.

32

33 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And that would also

34 help enforcement.

35

36 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Mr. Smith.

37 Again, I think that might be a question that Tony would

38 want to weigh in, to change the green card statewide on

39 the State side. I don't know if they would be willing

40 to do that, I doubt it. But, again, I'm sure Tony's

41 probably seen some green harvest reports come in that

42 aren't consistent with the State season but, probably,

43 hopefully, are consistent with the Federal season.

44

45 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

46

47 MR. GORN: Yeah, through the Chair to

48 Mr. Smith. I could only imagine what Department

49 leadership would say about changing our green harvest

50 tickets

 

66

 

1 (Laughter)

2

3 MR. GORN: to track Federal

4 harvest. So I'm not going to go down that road.

5

6 But what I will say and I think

7 everybody here appreciates the fact that, you know,

8 over the years Federal and State biologists have worked

9 very close to set up seasons and bag limits that mimic

10 each other. And if you look at the two different

11 versions of the Handy-Dandy, the Federal version and

12 the State version, you'll see that across Unit 22 in

13 almost circumstances, seasons and bag limits are the

14 same. So the majority of the time hunters are safe if

15 you're just using a State permit.

16

17 There's just only a couple examples,

18 down in 22A, where, frankly that moose season in the

19 southern portion of 22A, that's been changed, I think

20 at the last three Board of Game meetings. It started

21 off in December and it just keeps getting kind of

22 pushed back.

23

24 The example up in 22E for moose, the

25 State and, I guess that's me, at this point, just is a

26 little bit uncomfortable sliding that season all the

27 way to March 15th. That's where we were. You know,

28 15 years ago that's where we were and we just saw a lot

29 of antlerless moose harvest. There's not -- there are

30 antlered bulls out there but there's not a lot

31 available and what we experienced was just a lot of

32 cows being harvested and we all saw what happened to

33 the moose population. So pending what we find here in

34 the next couple weeks, assuming we can get out and do

35 our GSPE, I mean maybe we can revisit that. But, I men

36 the bottom line is that at this point most of the

37 opportunity, you just need a State permit and every

38 year it's just a part of doing business, you know, we

39 end up with a handful of these State permits that we

40 got to sit down and try to sleuth and try to figure out

41 was this a State harvest taken out of season or was it

42 a Federal harvest and most times it's just Federal

43 harvest on a green harvest ticket.

44

45 MR. KEYES: This is Anthony. What I

46 was hearing Tim, was, you know, if you carry a State

47 permit, on that State permit it should have two boxes,

48 State or Federal, that way the workers on the other end

49 who receive that paper can look through it and say, oh,

50 okay, he got it on Federal land, even though it's with

 

67

 

1 a State permit, that way we don't have to fumble over

2 getting more paperwork done and everything like that.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tim.

5

6 MR. SMITH: Yeah, my reason for saying

7 that is, as it is now, there'd be no practical way to

8 determine what the effect of changing this regulation

9 would be. There'd be no way to tell if it made any

10 difference at all.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You mean our closure?

13

14 MR. SMITH: If we open it, we won't

15 know if there's been a change because we won't be able

16 to tell whether the moose was taken under Federal rules

17 or under State rules, there'd be no way to know. My

18 concern is, I don't know -- I guess we could tell if

19 the total harvest increased but other than that we

20 couldn't tell if it was because more people are hunting

21 in the State hunt or more people are hunting in the

22 changed rules for the Federal hunt. I kind of think

23 that's a problem. I think you should be able to tell

24 what impact your regulation change has made.

25

26 I mean to me it's -- I agree with Tony,

27 the easiest way to do it would be to just have a

28 checked box on something on the State harvest ticket or

29 harvest report if that's what people are reporting

30 their harvest on. To me that would be the simplest way

31 to do it. Otherwise I think you almost have to have a

32 separate harvest report for the Federal hunt.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, to some extent

35 you can tell by the address on the permit, but I don't

36 know how much the Department looks at that, you know,

37 if the addresses are local then -- but the other thing

38 is that most of the season is a dual season so anybody

39 who's not from the area during that time is hunting

40 under State regs and according to the address on the

41 permit you can tell if non-local participation is

42 increasing.

43

44 Tony, do you -- Mr. Gorn, do you guys

45 look at addresses on harvest tickets?

46

47 MR. GORN: Mr. Chair. Like I said

48 before, every year there's a handful of these that we

49 have to sort out and we end up -- you know, it takes

50 time and we end up sorting out what is Federal harvest

 

68

 

1 and what is State harvest.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I think where

4 you're going is we're looking at removing the closure

5 so now all these, whoever, these State guys can now go

6 onto the Federal land and hunt and is there a way, by

7 looking at addresses on green harvest tickets to - 

8 that you guys can tally up that non-local participation

9 has increased on Federal lands?

10

11 MR. GORN: Well, be patient with me,

12 I'm trying to stay with you here.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

15

16 MR. GORN: I mean I think that's

17 something that we'd be able to tell by where that

18 hunter reported their harvest and then we would be able

19 to see if it was on Federal or State land.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: No, we want to know if

22 that hunter lived in Unit 22 or did not live in Unit

23 22?

24

25 MR. GORN: Oh, and that, yeah, and that

26 takes time, especially with the harvest ticket because

27 unlike a registration hunt it's not -- I'll use the

28 word, micro-managed, I don't know if that's

29 appropriate, but it's not tracked as closely as a

30 registration hunt. Those harvest tickets, they all get

31 sent to Anchorage and that all takes time, by the time

32 they're entered, but it eventually ends up getting

33 sorted out.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Tim, the other

36 thing we can do is just look at the historical data for

37 this hunt, which is on Page 55.

38

39 MR. SMITH: Yeah.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And you can see that

42 participation by all people isn't that high. And I

43 think if you're familiar with -- I mean the thing that

44 drives participation in this hunt to some extent is

45 just the fact that on the Federal land you can't take a

46 fourwheeler onto the Federal land, and that's going to

47 stay the same whether we remove the closure or not, so

48 that's going to be the real limit -- I see, as the real

49 limiting factor in how many non-local people start

50 hunting on Federal land, you know, they're going to

 

69

 

1 have to get in a boat in Shishmaref or call up Tony

2 here and go out the road or something, so, you know, I

3 understand your concern but so far we don't have a lot

4 of participation in this hunt.

5

6 MR. SMITH: Yeah, and I know we're

7 making a mountain out of a -- or I'm making a mountain

8 out of a mole hill, but say, for example, somebody sent

9 the harvest report back and it said I took the moose on

10 the Serpentine River, well, that could be taken in the

11 Federal hunt, it could be taken in the State hunt,

12 there would be no way to know really. I mean that's

13 probably not a major problem in this hunt because, you

14 know, you don't expect a big harvest, but it could be

15 in a different situation. It seems like it's something

16 that needs to be addressed at some point, a better way

17 of reporting harvest so you know which hunt the

18 animal's being taken in.

19

20 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Peter.

23

24 MR. BUCK: I'd just like to mention

25 that we -- somebody mentioned fourwheelers. White

26 Mountain Native Corporation opposes any fourwheeler use

27 on the land and so that's not State or Federal

28 regulations, it's just for the corporation purposes.

29 So I thought I'd just mention it.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Okay,

32 well, Alex.

33

34 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. I wanted to give

35 you a couple of examples, hopefully to clarify Mr.

36 Keyes' recommendation to use Federal and State permit

37 with a checked box to indicate the, you know, where the

38 harvest occurred. I wanted to give you a couple of

39 examples that occurred in my region, in Unit 18.

40 There's a moose moratorium, well, actually a couple of

41 areas were designated as moose moratorium in Unit 18

42 and the boundary of Unit 18 and 19A was designated as

43 an .804 situation. Yesterday during the Council

44 orientation I explained part of that. My personal

45 experience and my personal observation about use of

46 State and Federal permits sometimes get complicated in

47 some areas. In some areas there has to be a drawing of

48 permits and in some areas there have to be an allocated

49 number of Federal permits.

50

 

70

 

1 For example in Bethel area, when moose

2 moratorium was lifted, under State hunt the permits

3 were made available to all interested folks within the

4 state of Alaska versus where Federal permits were

5 issued only to Federally-qualified users. And that

6 caused some complications but those complications did

7 not really emerge. And to answer some of -- maybe to

8 hopefully qualify -- excuse me -- to hopefully clarify

9 Tony's suggestion, in some cases when a designated

10 hunter permit is issued, State green harvest ticket is

11 not used, only that designated hunter permit serves as

12 a harvest ticket.

13

14 And Tom could clarify some of that, you

15 know, if there's any questions.

16

17 But my personal opinion on Tony's

18 recommendation to issue only one permit under State and

19 Federal that might pose some problems down the road

20 because it has to be a -- might have to be approved by

21 the Board of Game and Federal Subsistence Board.

22

23 Is that okay or not?

24

25 (Laughter)

26

27 MS. BROWN: Sorry, we were just

28 conferring, we had a different understanding of what

29 Mr. Keyes had said. We thought that he and Mr. Martin

30 were proposing to have both a Federal and a State

31 permit, not just one, and then there was discussion on

32 whether Mr. Smith was trying to get the State permit to

33 alter theirs, which, as Mr. Gorn said, would be highly

34 unlikely that they would go for that, but one solution

35 would be then to just have a Federal permit required in

36 this area if you're going to be hunting on Federal

37 lands, then it would be submitted through the Federal

38 system and that would be a record on whether they were

39 hunting with that tag. If they're hunting with the

40 State tag then they submit the State tag on Federal

41 lands, so that way we would be able to -- whether, you

42 know, i don't know if Mr. Gorn wants to go through all

43 the green harvest tickets and do the sleuthing himself.

44 It may be an option.

45

46 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Ken.

49

50 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Counsel

 

71

 

1 members. Since you seem to be kind of brainstorming

2 that issue, and the question comes up, well, whether

3 you're actually going to physically modify a permit,

4 like the State permit to provide a Federal checkbox, I

5 mean one simple way and then, you know, the State can

6 sure object if they have a problem with this, but you

7 just take the State permit and you're using it for a

8 Federal regulation or the State harvest ticket and you

9 take your animal on Federal land and you just write

10 Federal across the face of the harvest ticket and mail

11 it in or, you know, dispose of it properly and it shows

12 up on the State and then as Tony says, every year they

13 got to sort out a few of these things and then it just

14 becomes a matter for somebody to, you know, match the

15 resident community with the -- you know, what's allowed

16 under the Federal program and you're sort of done. But

17 it does require an extra step in there, you know, to

18 check and make sure that somebody's not cheating. But

19 you're probably not going to get a lot of outsiders

20 doing it because, you know, they shouldn't be there in

21 the first place so they're opening themselves up if

22 they're hunting say in February for a moose and, you

23 know

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sure.

26

27 MR. ADKISSON: in 22E on the

28 Federal lands.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, that sounds like

31 a good idea to me. You know we've got some of these

32 Federal permits around here for the muskox season, so a

33 guy's got to get a State permit and a Federal permit to

34 -- if he wants to hunt the Federal hunt, which for

35 muskox has some slightly different rules. But, you

36 know, if you can take your State permit and keep on

37 hunting for moose in February and March, that seems

38 simpler than having to get another permit and Ken's

39 idea is certainly adequate that the guy can just write

40 on it.

41

42 Tim.

43

44 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I wanted to follow up

45 on what Tony said earlier, about we're not talking

46 about opening up hunting -- a Federal hunt for

47 antlerless moose, are we? You said something about

48 concerns about the increased harvest of antlerless

49 moose, you're anticipating that people would just

50

 

72

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Non-legal harvest.

2

3 MR. SMITH: take antlerless moose

4 because they were unable to find antlered moose?

5

6 MR. GORN: That's correct, Mr. Smith.

7 Through the Chair to Mr. Smith. Yes. And, that's,

8 again, a little bit of speculation on my part but

9 that's what we saw before. By the time -- certainly

10 there is a component of the moose population that still

11 has antlers all the way into March. But by and large

12 most of them are dropped and what we saw the first time

13 around, going back 15, 20 years, is that, you know, we

14 just saw antlerless harvest.

15

16 MR. SMITH: I think that's a valid

17 concern. Because, you know, I can't remember ever

18 seeing an antlered moose in March. There may be some

19 but, you know, I don't see how it's reasonable for a

20 hunter to go out and find one. I just don't think they

21 could. And so if the result of this is to increase the

22 cow harvest, I think it's probably not a great idea.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, no, lifting the

25 closure is not going to increase the cow harvest. The

26 people who now become legal to hunt on this Federal

27 land by lifting the closure can only hunt during the

28 State season. They can't hunt during that February and

29 March period because that's a Federal hunt only

30 available to Federally-qualified subsistence users.

31 So, you know, if the cow season increases -- or cow

32 take increases it's going to be done by local people or

33 by a small amount of non-local people hunting illegally

34 anyway.

35

36 MR. SMITH: I guess that's what I

37 understood Tony to say is that, that's what he

38 anticipated is that if you get more hunters out there

39 then you're going to get an increased antlerless moose

40 harvest, and I guess that's -- I don't think that's a

41 particular good idea.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: No, what I heard him

44 say was the State had a resistance to going into a

45 February and March season because they saw antlerless

46 moose harvest in the past. We don't have a State hunt

47 during that time. We have a Federal hunt, I assume,

48 those dates exist because local people asked for those

49 dates and at some point in the past this Council

50 responded to those requests. So even if we remove the

 

73

 

1 closure those two months only remain available,

2 legally, to local people.

3

4 Peter.

5

6 MR. MARTIN: Mr. Chair. Even at some

7 point and somewhere I saw a comment that -- but is

8 there going to be a proposal by the State for our units

9 to harvest antlerless moose; does anybody know anything

10 about that?

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: For where?

13

14 MR. GORN: Through the Chair to Peter.

15 So I kind of missed the part of your question, you want

16 to know if there's going to be a proposal from the

17 State for antlerless moose but in what area?

18

19 MR. MARTIN: I think I saw something in

20 black and white about that.

21

22 MR. GORN: In what area?

23

24 MR. MARTIN: And I don't know if I'm

25 correct or not but I would like to find out for myself

26 to clarify that by some State official.

27

28 MR. GORN: So in which area

29 specifically are you talking about?

30

31 MR. MARTIN: All units. All units in

32 state of Alaska.

33

34 MR. GORN: Okay, so you want to know if

35 there's antlerless moose hunting opportunity in the

36 state of Alaska or in Unit 22?

37

38 MR. MARTIN: All units in the state of

39 Alaska.

40

41 MR. GORN: Okay, so in Unit 22 we do

42 have several areas where we have antlerless moose

43 hunting opportunity. We have antlerless moose hunting

44 opportunity in Unit 22D Remainder, it's been on the

45 books for years. The small number of moose taken out

46 of that area, antlerless moose taken out of that area,

47 combined with the antlered bull harvest taken out of

48 that area has worked for decades. The other area where

49 we have antlerless moose harvest in Unit 22 is Unit

50 22C, and that's based on very high moose densities in

 

74

 

1 22C and chronically low bull/cow ratios. Locally we

2 have bull/cow ratios around 11 bulls per 100 cows in

3 22C and we currently have the highest densities that

4 we've ever had here. We counted moose here last year

5 and the point estimate for 22C was like 620 moose. So

6 for about almost -- oh, boy, nine years now I believe

7 we've had a limited amount of antlerless hunting

8 opportunity locally here out in Nome.

9

10 MR. MARTIN: In the remainder of 22A,

11 we had a season from January 1st to February 15th,

12 which today is the last day. And this year I know that

13 during the other years that most of our people who are

14 hunters did not get an opportunity to get an antlered

15 moose. And that's why I made the earlier -- earlier I

16 made a comment in proposing from December 15 to January

17 31st to make let our people to hunt more easier and be

18 able to get an antlered moose.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: We'll take that up

21 here when we review -- go over potential proposals.

22

23 Do you want to say something?

24

25 MR. GORN: (Shakes head negatively)

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. All right,

28 well, I'm going to cut that discussion off, we need to

29 move on. I'd kind of like to get No. 9 done before we

30 go to lunch even though we're getting close to a lunch

31 time. So Cole and Tom, are you handling this?

32

33 MR. KRON: It's the call for proposals.

34

35 MS. BROWN: Mr. Chair. We're just

36 available to help anyone who wants to draft a proposal.

37 We have proposal forms, if they want to take something

38 up, then we will help them through the proposal

39 process. That's our role here.

40

41 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So you've

44 got the forms with you, you're saying?

45

46 MS. BROWN: Are they back there?

47

48 MR. KRON: No, they're not.

49

50 MS. BROWN: Oh, do you have the forms?

 

75

 

1 MR. NICK: They didn't come from

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Can you

4

5 MS. BROWN: That's okay, we know what

6 information we need so we can discuss it with whoever

7 wants to bring it up, either during the session or off

8 session, at a break, whenever, it doesn't have to be on

9 record to take a proposal. So we're just opening it

10 up. If someone would like to bring it up now we can

11 take that information.

12

13 Thank you.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Peter.

16

17 MR. MARTIN: Yes, I would like to have

18 that proposal form.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Alex.

21

22 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. On Page 14 and

23 15 of your Federal book it shows you how to submit a

24 proposal.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, you're talking

27 about this one, okay.

28

29 (Pause)

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, so, yeah,

32 how to submit a proposal. Okay, so Peter and anyone

33 else that wants to submit a proposal work with Cole.

34 You don't necessarily have to do it today but you can

35 call her on the 800 number, although I will say from my

36 experience that you guys are so seldom available when

37 somebody calls that number that it's almost pointless,

38 and the

39

40 MS. BROWN: We have direct numbers too.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, that costs us

43 money.

44

45 MS. BROWN: Oh.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Maybe not now that we

48 all have cell phones.

49

50 (Laughter)

 

76

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

2

3 MR. KEYES: Yes, I would like to come

4 up with a proposal for two places, would be Wales and

5 Shishmaref on the bear population.

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Well, I think

8 what I'm going to do is, you know, you guys work with

9 OSM office to craft the proposal and submit it and then

10 in February -- I'm sorry, in October that will be right

11 here in our packet and we'll go over it, you know, you

12 guys will get a chance to speak about it as will the

13 OSM office and we'll all vote to support or not support

14 it. So just work with them, they're available,

15 business hours Monday through Friday.

16

17 Go ahead, Tom.

18

19 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. In terms of the

20 proposals, if the Council wants to actually submit a

21 proposal as a Council, you could be working on it and

22 just say, you know, here's generally what we want to

23 do, we want to deal with bears and this is the general

24 season and basically charge various people to work with

25 Cole to flesh it out but the Council then could vote to

26 support the concept of -- the general concept of the

27 proposal and then it could be a Council proposal.

28 Alternately, individuals could submit proposals too, so

29 it's just your choice. But if you're going to submit

30 it as a Council it needs to be done through some formal

31 action at this meeting. But you don't have to have the

32 final wording in front of you when you vote, you're

33 just voting on a general concept that the Council would

34 agree on.

35

36 So, again, either way, as a Council or

37 as individuals, you can do it either way, and Cole's

38 available to help, you know, whichever way you go.

39

40 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

41

42 MR. KEYES: Yeah, I would take that

43 approach through the Board members, it'd be much more

44 feasible and everybody would have a better

45 understanding instead of having an individual, by

46 himself go up and say, hey, I need this thing done

47 because -- we might get a better helping hand from the

48 rest of the RAC if we were to do it through our Council

49 members.

50

 

77

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Alex, I

2 was guessing that we would go through the rest of this

3 agenda fairly quickly; is that guess incorrect, from

4 your experience?

5

6 MR. NICK: It depends on the

7

8 REPORTER: Alex. Alex.

9

10 MR. NICK: It depends on the questions

11 and answers.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It looks like a lot of

14 stuff but

15

16 MR. KEYES: We should take another day.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, well, I was

19 wondering if we could get through this whole thing in

20 one day but maybe not.

21

22 Okay, here's what I'm going to do

23

24 (Laughter)

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: we're going to

27 adjourn for lunch since it's noon. I'm going to

28 request that the people who want to bring proposals

29 forward just kind of write something down so that you

30 can present it to us when we come back and we'll,

31 hopefully, go through it and then vote and turn it over

32 to them for a little more work at that time.

33

34 All right. So if nobody's got any

35 objections we'll adjourn for lunch and please be back

36 here at 1:00 o'clock.

37

38 MR. BUCK: 1:30.

39

40 MR. SEETOT: 1:30.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You want until 1:30?

43

44 MR. BUCK: Yes.

45

46 MR. SEETOT: Yep.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, by request 1:30.

49

50 (Laughter)

 

78

 

1 (Off record)

2

3 (On record)

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Everybody's here

6

7 REPORTER: Mike. Mike.

8

9 MR. SMITH: Microphone Mike.

10

11 (Laughter)

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, I know. All

14 right, everybody's here that needs to be here.

15

16 We're reconvene at more or less 1:30.

17

18 We were going to take up proposals that

19 the RAC might want to submit and, Peter, I'll let you

20 go first. Do you want to talk about what you gave me

21 here?

22

23 MR. MARTIN: Yes. For a new regulation

24 for

25

26 REPORTER: Peter. Peter.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You got to turn your

29 mic on.

30

31 MR. MARTIN: Oh, sorry.

32

33 REPORTER: Thank you.

34

35 MR. MARTIN: Peter Martin, Sr.,

36 Stebbins. My proposal is for a new regulation for

37 Stebbins/St. Michael area unit 22 Remainder moose

38 season from January 1 to February 15, changed to

39 December 15 to January 31. It's a new regulation. And

40 due to low catch of antler moose there'd be no impact,

41 hunters get better chance to get antlered moose, no

42 effect.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. All right. So

45 you just want to extend the current -- let's see you

46 want to do this on the Federal side -- oh, from -- oh,

47 okay, you want to start December

48

49 MR. MARTIN: Whoever's in charge - 

50 also State and Federal

 

79

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: 15th and end

2 January 31st. All right. So that's the proposal he'd

3 like to submit. You got any questions or anything for

4 Peter.

5

6 (No comments)

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So there's

9 no questions. Do I need to be official, Alex, or can

10 we just kind of say if there's no objection we'll

11 submit the proposal?

12

13 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. That's how it's

14 handled as long as it's captured by the Staff, unless

15 someone has revisions or recommendation for changes.

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Then if there's

18 no objection from any Council members, I'll instruct

19 you to work with Mr. Martin on a proposal from this RAC

20 concerning this change and I'm going to let her have

21 this piece of paper.

22

23 (No objections)

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So that proposal will

26 come from this RAC but we will have the opportunity in

27 October to review it again and support or not support

28 that proposal and all the various agencies will have

29 opportunity at that time to comment on whether they

30 like or dislike the proposal.

31

32 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

35

36 MR. BUCK: I'd like to add within

37 proposals like the proposal that we -- or I mean not - 

38 add into proposals where I was like talking about

39 earlier, you have the hunt in September where there's

40 no Federal permit added to it and then in January you

41 have the Federal permit allowed. I would like to see

42 that -- I'd like to see the Federal and the State get

43 together and really push subsistence and in order to

44 push these proposals through they should be a

45 subsistence priority where a certain percent can be

46 taken for potlucks and funerals and providing for

47 elders and that certain percent will be added into the

48 proposal so that this subsistence priority can go

49 through.

50

 

80

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. I believe

2 there's already opportunity for communities to do

3 harvest for traditional ceremonies. I don't believe

4 there's any avenue to just harvest for one particular

5 age group but you do have opportunity on the Federal

6 regs to harvest for things like potlatches. I believe

7 you have to work with ADF&G on those.

8

9 MR. KRON: Mr. Chairman. The regs on

10 that are found on Page 13 in the Handy-Dandy. And I

11 know the State has a program as well. But, again,

12 basically working with the area managers there's

13 capability to get permits for funerary and mortuary

14 ceremonies, potlatches.

15

16 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Under the State

19 system, too, you have the opportunity to proxy hunt. A

20 person over -- I think it's over 65 can designate

21 somebody else to take an animal under their permit.

22 I'm not sure if the Federal system has that or not.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You do?

25

26 MR. KRON: Yes, Mr. Chair. Mr. Smith.

27 Under your Federal System there is a designated hunter

28 capability described in the regs as well, and Page 17

29 describes that. But designated hunter permits are

30 provided to a lot of the field Staff and are utilized

31 in many areas of the state.

32

33 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Go ahead.

36

37 MR. RABINOWITCH: Good afternoon, I'm

38 Sandy Rabinowitch with the Park Service. In response

39 to Peter's question I would point out to you, Mr.

40 Chairman, that the Federal Board has, at least in once

41 instance that I know of, established a hunt for elders,

42 and the example that I'm looking at is on Page 57 of

43 the Federal Book. It's a Unit 11 elder sheep hunt.

44 And so my only point is to point out that the Board has

45 done that kind of thing at least once before that I

46 know of.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I see that,

49 interesting. Does the person who's 60 years of age or

50 older have to actually do the hunting?

 

81

 

1 MR. RABINOWITCH: I'd have to look at

2 it in detail, let me look at it and let you know.

3

4 MR. SEETOT: You could see that, joint

5 permit, it says that. Right there, right on your page.

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: See Unit 11 special

8 provisions, oh, a joint permit for a pair of a minor

9 and an elder. Okay, interesting.

10

11 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

14

15 MR. BUCK: I would like to include into

16 that if you're getting for an elder I would like to see

17 where the elder's preference be put in that way, if

18 they wanted to, they could get an antlerless moose or

19 whatever.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I imagine that's

22 going to take a little work. If there isn't a season

23 for an antlerless moose you're going to have a hard

24 time getting that. Peter, you know, if you want to

25 craft a proposal and work with Cole on it and then

26 submit it, well, we can certainly go over it at the

27 time, or next October, but, you know, you got to work

28 within the legal frameworks that are available and

29 there's a lot of things we all want to do but it just

30 -- they just won't allow it to happen that way.

31

32 All right, now, did Tony and/or Fred,

33 have a proposal they wanted to

34

35 MR. KEYES: I'll wait until I get home

36 and I'll just go ahead and call them from home.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

39

40 MR. KEYES: That way I can get with my

41 IRA Council members and I'll get their idea what they

42 need that I could be able to help them out with.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. And, Fred, did

45 you have anything?

46

47 MR. ENINGOWUK: No, not at this time.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. And Mr.

50 Kron, you just need me or who to say these are okay?

 

82

 

1 MR. KRON: You.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, they're

4 okay.

5

6 (Laughter)

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. So that's

9 proposals. Let me see I didn't make it real clear that

10 Peter's proposal pertains to Unit 22A Remainder not to

11 all or whatever, it's a local specific proposal.

12

13 All right. Now, we get to move on to

14 the review and finalize the draft 2010 Annual Report.

15 Alex handed us each a copy of that earlier today, let's

16 see, we went over it last October and March,

17 apparently, so you guys need to look it over and make

18 sure you're happy with it.

19

20 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Uh-huh.

23

24 MR. NICK: As you remember in October

25 meeting you provided topics for your 2010 annual

26 meeting and then based on the discussions that you had

27 during the meeting I try to capture the issues

28 beginning at bottom of the first page through third

29 page. The first part of the draft Annual Report is

30 modeled after other Councils like YK, and then the

31 issues come from your region based on the discussions

32 that you had in October 2010.

33

34 Now is the time to review it, make some

35 changes, edit, delete or whatever you want to do with

36 it and then we will work on the final Annual Report and

37 then the final copy will be reviewed by the Chair and

38 when it's approved then we'll submit it to the Federal

39 Board.

40

41 Mr. Chair.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, does

44 anybody see anything they want to add, delete, change.

45

46 Alex, what do you -- either Alex or

47 Tom, what do you know about streamlining the Regional

48 Advisory Council nominations? It's like a year long

49 process and kind of slows things down if we end up

50 losing members for whatever reason.

 

83

 

1 MR. NICK: Tom could assist me on this.

2 Streamlining is an idea that not only Regional - 

3 Seward Peninsula Regional Advisory Council recommends,

4 other regions are also recommending that because, you

5 know, they think it takes too long for members to be

6 appointed to the Regional Advisory Councils.

7

8 Tom.

9

10 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. I think, you

11 know, all of you are probably fairly familiar with the

12 process, having gone through it yourself. You're

13 appointed by the Secretary of Interior but before you

14 get to that point there's essentially Alex and usually

15 agency Staff from the various Federal agencies contact

16 the people that have been nominated or have expressed

17 an interest and then, you know, provide that

18 information up through the system, the Federal

19 Subsistence Board here in Alaska, you know, reviews the

20 people that are nominated and ultimately the Secretary

21 makes the decision. But, again, it does take some time

22 and also, as you know, for various reasons, sometimes

23 Council members resign in the middle of their term.

24 But, you know, again, having been through it, each of

25 you, if you've got ideas as to things that could be

26 done to streamline, we're all ears.

27

28 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

31

32 MR. KEYES: By -- how should I -- did

33 you by any chance get any applications like from

34 Savoonga or Gambell because they're on the -- you know,

35 fishing -- about fish issues I'm pretty sure they would

36 like to know more about what we're trying to do about

37 the fish issue and, you know, they're common people of

38 eating seafood too. So I would like to see Savoonga

39 and Gambell try and jump on board to, you know, get

40 their -- get a better knowledge of what we're doing.

41

42 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Mr. Keyes. We

43 do have a list of applications that were received and

44 application period is still open now until 18th of this

45 month so they have that time, between now and then to

46 submit application for RAC membership.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: We did have a member

49 from Savoonga in the past, she came to a couple

50 meetings but I think she missed a couple, I think her

 

84

 

1 term expired and nobody else applied from out there.

2

3 Go ahead.

4

5 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. We would

6 definitely, you know, encourage all of the current

7 Regional Council members to talk to people that they

8 think might be interested, encourage them to submit

9 applications. You know, our office, OSM pays a

10 significant amount of money for newspaper ads around

11 the state. We've got radio ads in a number of places,

12 both in English and various Alaska Native languages.

13 So we do a fair amount trying to get applicants, but I

14 think a really effective way to get applicants is for

15 the members on the Councils, themselves, to talk to

16 people they know from areas that may not be represented

17 and definitely when your term is reaching an end, you

18 know, we'd encourage you to resubmit an application to

19 stay on the Council. But, again, the more applicants

20 the better.

21

22 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Alex, I'm looking at

25 our roster and I see some seats expire in 2011, those

26 particular seats need to apply this time period in

27 order to retain their seat if they're so appointed.

28

29 I'm trying to remember the legal part

30 of this, there is no actual break up of members having

31 to be from any one village as long as they're from

32 within the region; is that correct, I mean we could

33 conceivably have a Council made up of all Nome members

34 or all Shishmaref members, depending on who applies and

35 gets appointed.

36

37 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. I believe the

38 appointments of RAC membership is based on knowledge.

39 And in some areas there's, you know, like Tom mentioned

40 there's a review of applicants by interagency panel and

41 then that's submitted to the Federal Board and it's

42 reviewed by InterAgency Staff Committee before it's

43 submitted to the Board.

44

45 MR. KRON: Just a general comment in

46 response, Mr. Chair. I think there would be -- I guess

47 I've seen and heard a desire to try to have broad

48 representation across the region to the extent you can

49 possibly do that but, again, the Federal Subsistence

50 Program works with the applications that it receives.

 

85

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Exactly.

2

3 MR. KRON: But, again, the more

4 applicants, the broader representation that's possible,

5 I think the better the program will work.

6

7 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

10

11 MR. KEYES: I talked to several people

12 to see if they wanted to sign on to be a RAC member and

13 then it always falls down to this, the money is not

14 good enough. That's the number 1 answer I always get

15 from the people I talk to. Even I try to tell them

16 it's not for the money I'm doing, you know, I'm doing

17 it for my community but they would still say, well,

18 with the prices that are, you know, rising every year

19 and you get to Nome and you want to buy some essentials

20 and it doesn't go around to fill up a paper bag or a

21 paper shopping bag, you know, it just -- they downgrade

22 because the per diem that we receive, it's what's

23 holding back a majority of those that want to apply.

24 Believe me I've talked to several people and before

25 they say anything it's the money, it's too low, we're

26 not going to go there because the per diem is not good.

27 And I try to tell them, we're not going there for the

28 per diem we're going there for the villages that we are

29 going to represent but, still, you know, they would

30 still jump on the same wagon and say, no, per diem is

31 too low.

32

33 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

36

37 MR. BUCK: He took the words out of my

38 mouth. I was going to mention that when I was in

39 Anchorage there was a couple of the people, all over

40 Alaska, and they said the compensation for the meetings

41 is real low. And they all agree with that. Also I

42 would like to recommend at least for the RAC committees

43 that an honorarium be included into our per diem.

44

45 Thank you.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom.

48

49 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Just a general

50 response, this question's been asked by a number of

 

86

 

1 Councils. We've sent several requests all the way up

2 through the Secretary of Interior's Office to see if it

3 was possible to do this, the answer has come back,

4 twice, that I know of, that we cannot. You know,

5 basically we can provide travel and per diem and that

6 an honorarium is not an option. You know, that doesn't

7 mean you can't ask again but we've already been told

8 twice that we cannot.

9

10 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, you

13 know, there has to be some responsibility upon the

14 citizens to participate in this program. You cannot

15 expect for this to be a profitable venture to

16 participate in. And as someone who's never received a

17 dime for any of the time I've spent both here and at a

18 State meeting, you know, I -- I'm taking time off from

19 work today to attend this meeting and tomorrow, and I'm

20 assuming that some of you are too, you know, to some

21 extent this is a volunteer process. And if everybody

22 sitting here and everybody who might listen or read

23 this, if you want your community represented then

24 somebody needs to apply. It's pretty plain and simple.

25

26 I certainly commend the members, every

27 member here now has been here for two or more years,

28 well, except for Tim, because he just got on, but the

29 village guys have all -- some of them -- Peter's been

30 here for over

31

32 MR. KEYES: Decades.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: He's been here

35

36 (Laughter)

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You're getting there

39 Tony, be careful.

40

41 (Laughter)

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Anyway so Tom, I'm

44 assuming we're stuck with this process because it's

45 written into the language of ANILCA and streamlining it

46 is somewhat prevented by that language?

47

48 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. It's not ANILCA

49 in this case. The other Federal law that we're under

50 is the Federal Advisory Committee Act, FACA, you've

 

87

 

1 probably heard of FACA.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah.

4

5 MR. KRON: You know, basically it's the

6 process that regulates the various advisory committees

7 on the Federal side across the country. And, again, I

8 don't know all the ins and outs of this but it's my

9 understanding that that is what a driver in this

10 process.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And does that

13

14 MR. KRON: And I'll look to Sandy,

15 Sandy, if you could help us here. Sandy's been around

16 the block many more times than I have and maybe he can

17 help, he's on the Staff Committee for the Park Service.

18

19 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sandy.

22

23 MR. RABINOWITCH: Good afternoon,

24 again. Sandy Rabinowitch. I would modify what Tom

25 just said slightly. FACA does -- it's important and

26 we've got to follow all the rules of this other Federal

27 law, but I don't believe that FACA says you cannot pay

28 Advisory Committee members. So that's the one

29

30 MR. KRON: Okay, thank you.

31

32 MR. RABINOWITCH: little tweak I

33 would make. But I actually was talking with an OSM

34 Staff just two weeks ago about this, for a different

35 reason, the compensation question that you put on the

36 table, that was Ann Wilkinson, and Ann says that she

37 has checked with the Office of the Secretary of

38 Interior about compensation for FACA committees like

39 this one and there's apparently 113, if I'm remembering

40 the number right, around the country, under the

41 Secretary of Interior, and she said not one, zero, gets

42 any compensation. So I believe it's correct to refer

43 to it as a DOI policy nationwide, that people be

44 volunteers, you know, like what you were saying.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, well, certainly.

47

48 MR. RABINOWITCH: Okay. That they not

49 be compensated. I think there are some advisory groups

50 to the Federal government where people are compensated.

 

88

 

1 I can't tell you what groups they are, you know, I just

2 don't know that. But within the Department of

3 Interior, that 113 or so, it's all volunteer. That's

4 my understanding of how it works.

5

6 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

9

10 MR. BUCK: I think that Elmer would

11 agree with me when we first started here, we really had

12 -- our compensation was way down, from it was -- it was

13 almost nothing, now, we have something. And I was

14 wondering what happened to make that process to get

15 better compensation, what was done to improve our

16 compensation.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Compensation.

19

20 MR. KRON: It's probably the per diem

21 rates have changed.

22

23 MR. RABINOWITCH: Yeah, I was going to

24 say I'm not an expert on that but I assume that per

25 diem rates have gone up, it's really that simple. And,

26 you know, air -- yeah, per diem rates have gone up,

27 they're adjusted every year.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Can we just forward

30 Bonanza Fuel's current gas price to you and you'll

31 raise our per diem rate based on that?

32

33 (Laughter)

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, actually where I

36 was going was the selection of members and does that

37 have to go all the way to the Secretary of the

38 Interior? This is an Alaska program and, you know,

39 where's Pat Pourchot and that Kim Elton guy and

40 whatever, why can't they do some of this work?

41

42 MR. RABINOWITCH: Having been part of

43 this for about 15 years or so, what I would tell you is

44 that -- I think Tom just said the application period - 

45 or Alex said the application period's still open. The

46 panels to review those have already been selected and

47 they're basically ready to go the day the thing closes,

48 they'll be done with their work in March, so we're in

49 February so they'll -- no, I'm sorry, I think it's

50 April, they're going to be done with their work in

 

89

 

1 April, the applicants come to the Staff Committee in

2 May or June, I'm on that Staff Committee group, we

3 usually deal with it within about a two week period and

4 then it goes to the Federal Board usually at a meeting

5 in Anchorage in either June or July, so the Alaska part

6 of the system I think is fairly quick. I mean the

7 Federal Board will be done making all of its

8 recommendations by June or July of this year. It then

9 goes to Washington, D.C. And what I would tell you is

10 things don't move so quickly at that point.

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I understand

13 that. What's the possibilities of not going to

14 Washington, D.C.?

15

16 MR. RABINOWITCH: My understanding is

17 that the Secretary has retained -- I'm sure we could

18 find this in the regs somewhere, the Secretary has

19 retained the authority to make the choices, to choose

20 you all.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, he doesn't choose

23 to delegate it down.

24

25 MR. RABINOWITCH: So conceptually - 

26 exactly -- exactly right, Mr. Chairman. Conceptually

27 the kind of thing you would have to suggest would be

28 that that be delegated down to the Federal Board. If

29 you did something like that you'd probably speed it up

30 about six months.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Alex.

33

34 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Members of the

35 Council. I received one application from one of the

36 members. I'm not going to get into the detail of this

37 application, but I want to stress importance of what

38 you put in this one -- in this document. Like Pete - 

39 Peter -- Tom mentioned, I think InterAgency Panel do a

40 very good job reviewing applications, but it depends on

41 what you put in this application. You know, when you

42 put your knowledge in this application, there should be

43 more detail in that. They want to know what you know

44 about the resources out here.

45

46 I think on Page 5 and 6 of this

47 application, when you submit the application or

48 nominate somebody, you need to be kind of maybe

49 specific about what you know or what that person or

50 individual knows about the resources out here.

 

90

 

1 If we put maybe one line that probably

2 might be a minus sign, even though, you know -- for

3 example if I was a Regional Advisory Council member I

4 might be reappointed about three terms and if I submit

5 an application assuming that everybody knows me by then

6 and then assuming that, you know, when I put one line

7 of information in this application, they will know who

8 I am, but that may not be the case.

9

10 So I would stress that you put more

11 information on the application of yourself, about

12 yourself or an individual you nominate.

13

14 And I was going to mention Tony,

15 especially Tony, he has concern about membership from

16 Savoonga and the other village, you are welcome to

17 nominate somebody from that village if you know who

18 they are.

19

20 MR. KEYES: There was one person that

21 approached me when I was going to college last year and

22 the individual told me that they had put in an

23 application and they were -- and I said well our

24 meeting is coming up here and she said -- and this

25 person said well I'll probably see you there and I

26 never see that person here.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

29 we've driven half the people away and they're all gone

30 now.

31

32 (Laughter)

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So let's get back to

35 our draft, do we need any more comments or questions or

36 anything on this draft Annual Report.

37

38 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Alex.

41

42 MR. NICK: First issue, if I remember

43 correctly comes from concern about fishery research

44 that during the discussion of annual report topics

45 somebody brought up a need for more research

46 participation, Federal participation on research

47 programs out here in the region.

48

49 The second issue comes from, I think - 

50 I believe it's from Seetot's region or subregion that

 

91

 

1 they were having some problems with the bear population

2 in that area and they want something done.

3

4 Issue number 3 also come from the

5 coastal areas, probably Seetot again, yeah, they talk

6 -- you guys talked about problems with petroleum taste

7 or something.

8

9 MR. ENINGOWUK: Petroleum contaminants.

10

11 MR. NICK: Possible contamination on

12 fish.

13

14 Number 4, streamlining Council

15 nomination appointments.

16

17 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair. Go ahead.

18

19 MR. NICK: That's all, thank you.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

22

23 MR. BUCK: I was just thinking about

24 the subsistence fisheries resources. Obama made his

25 speech and he said we have one organization for when

26 the fish is in saltwater and we have another

27 organization for when the fish go into the fresh water.

28 And he's trying to streamline the whole situation now.

29 If he wants to streamline us then let the subsistence

30 council take care of the fish resources in the

31 freshwater and also in the saltwater and make the

32 regulations for that. I think that would be a good

33 recommendation.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, we don't have

36 any real Federal regs for saltwater, I guess. The

37 State does though, I guess, the State has some stuff

38 for crabbing, some other species, halibut.

39

40 Go ahead, Tom.

41

42 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair. Basically

43 the Federal jurisdiction on the fisheries side is

44 within the external boundaries of the Federal lands,

45 you know, certain Federal lands, Refuges for example,

46 National Parks, some conservation areas, BLM for

47 example, Chugach National Forest. But, again, the

48 saltwater jurisdiction is very limited. Essentially

49 the State has management jurisdiction over, you know,

50 the saltwater fisheries and the critters that are

 

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1 there.

2

3 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tim.

6

7 MR. SMITH: If I recall correctly,

8 didn't the Katie John case decide that the Federal

9 managers, subsistence managers could extend their

10 jurisdiction to things that impacted a subsistence

11 resource?

12

13 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. What the Katie

14 John case did was essentially to result in the

15 establishment of the Federal jurisdiction over

16 fisheries in freshwater within these conservation

17 system units that I just mentioned. And, again, that

18 was a Copper River issue so essentially within the

19 Copper River district, within the external boundaries

20 of the Parks that are there, the BLM, I don't think

21 there are BLM conservation units, but it was

22 essentially a Park driven issue on Copper River but it

23 became a statewide issue and, again, that culminated in

24 the late 1990s essentially with the development of fish

25 regs on the Federal side. Prior to that it was only

26 wildlife during the 90s for the Federal Program. But

27 with Katie John the Federal system basically had

28 jurisdiction and responsibility for both fish and

29 wildlife. But, again, that jurisdiction has not

30 extended out into most of the saltwaters across the

31 state.

32

33 Again, the coastal areas, the State has

34 jurisdiction on, you know, off shore, you're going to

35 be looking at that issue relative to the North Pacific

36 Council discussion later on in this meeting. But,

37 again, the Federal jurisdiction is within the

38 conservation system unit boundaries.

39

40 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

43

44 MR. SMITH: I agree 100 percent with

45 Peter, I mean I think that's a real frustrating thing

46 for salmon management, is that, you've got different

47 agencies managing parts of the home range of the salmon

48 stocks and they don't really necessarily take into

49 account the actions of the other, the Board of

50 Fisheries manages salmon stocks in State waters, the

 

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1 North Pacific Fisheries Management Council manages

2 salmon stocks or manages impacts on salmon stocks in

3 the -- on the high seas, in the EEZ, and it just

4 doesn't make sense. It's not a workable management

5 system. You need to consider impacts on the population

6 throughout its run.

7

8 I don't know if there's a -- you know,

9 I doubt that we can fix it but I don't think it would

10 hurt to put some message in there that that is a

11 program, it makes it impossible to manage subsistence

12 stocks if they're getting -- taken some place else

13 outside of your jurisdiction.

14

15 MR. BUCK: I think it goes on back - 

16 earlier years we kept talking about extraterritorial

17 jurisdiction, and that's -- if we can make regulations

18 if the fish is passing Aleutian Islands then we can

19 make regulations for that are down there because the

20 fish comes up their area, that would be a

21 extraterritorial jurisdiction but over the years this

22 has really gone down the drain. We haven't had any

23 response to it and nobody believes in it anymore so I

24 kind of sit on that.

25

26 MR. SMITH: Yeah.

27

28 MR. SEETOT: Mike.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Elmer, go ahead.

31

32 MR. SEETOT: Concerning number 1,

33 increase research needed. Do you need to be specific

34 on the species or the resources that you're going to do

35 research on. Because I kind of mentioned the pike or

36 what I think is a pike increase around the Kuzitrin

37 River area -- Kuzitrin River, the Pilgrim River

38 drainages -- or the Pilgrim River and Kuzitrin River, I

39 know that they are full of pike and that beaver are

40 coming in this way. And, yet, they talk about -- the

41 Alaska Department of Fish and Game talks about red

42 salmon decrease that goes to Salmon Lake, silver

43 salmon, I have no problem with chums because they're

44 going to the Agiapuk River also. The thing that

45 bothers me is that when ADF&G talks about salmon

46 resources, they just kind of think about, you know,

47 that they're being overharvested, not taking into

48 account other factors during the life cycle of the

49 salmon. 2004 there was a big storm, fall storm after

50 the fish spawn, or after the fish spill out their eggs

 

94

 

1 around the Agiapuk, Pilgrim River, Kuzitrin River

2 system, even toward Brevig, the spit, what we call the

3 North Spit, a patch of land that's up right to Teller

4 and Brevig, that one was at least three-quarters under

5 water so I was thinking that the water part was very

6 destructive in that way, yet ADF&G was pretty much

7 given other factors because salmon didn't go to the

8 Salmon Lake area for spawning, you know, they were

9 giving other factors that that -- that they probably

10 didn't consider rough storms, predation, pikes. What

11 does beaver dams do to the salmon around that area.

12

13 Fast conclusions but not enough

14 research in that part other than just being there

15 during the spring and summer months to count the fish,

16 you know, that go through there.

17

18 But other factors do come into play.

19 Maybe these are the factors that are not being

20 considered by the fishery biologists because we're just

21 kind of thinking about certain things when we look at

22 salmon depletion.

23

24 Area M.

25

26 You have water temperatures rising.

27

28 You have invasive species coming into

29 an area, yet we do not know what comes into our area

30 because no research is being done.

31

32 So there's a lot of factors that are

33 not being taken into consideration.

34

35 When these species are either

36 threatened or extinct or others, so that's something

37 that we need to pretty much look at very much when

38 resources are not there for the people.

39

40 Thank you.

41

42 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

45

46 MR. BUCK: I'd like to add with his

47 because the resource -- the research needs to be done.

48 I know White Mountain people has always caught the fish

49 in the river. We had some shortages with silvers and

50 stuff like that but not a whole lot, but the Nome

 

95

 

1 people have been having a lot of problems all these

2 years. They cant' get their sockeye. Their resources

3 are really depleted and it's affected the Nome area,

4 why didn't it affect White Mountain too. Because I

5 don't know where your fish are coming from but those

6 two rivers should be pretty much the same but they

7 don't know what's happening so the research needs to be

8 done in that area.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

11

12 MR. KEYES: I would like to make a

13 suggestion for the Federal Board to come up with a

14 solution to get an air and water sampling done every

15 year. Not just month -- you know, not just one month

16 out of the whole summer. I would like to see it done,

17 starting from May to fall time is when our fishing

18 resources are up to par. I'd like to come up with that

19 strong suggestion of having water and air monitoring

20 system put into each village to where these -- and have

21 a RAC member help with the monitoring so that they can

22 be able to bring it back with them as information to

23 the rest of the Board members when the year -- the next

24 year meeting comes, that way we'll all have a better

25 understanding of what's really is in the air and in the

26 water and why is our fish not coming to our streams

27 like they used to.

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom, I'm actually

30 going to cut you off here, I'm afraid that I need to

31 keep the meeting moving along.

32

33 I believe that we get a chance each

34 year to recommend studies, fisheries studies, we've

35 done that in the past.

36

37 MR. KRON: Yep.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And that chance will

40 come up again next -- each October, I think, so, you

41 know, if you guys have ideas that you want studied you

42 can bring that up at the next meeting and we'll explore

43 that and go forward with some sort of proposal or

44 recommendation.

45

46 So what I guess I need is a motion

47 about this draft Annual Report.

48

49 Alex.

50

 

96

 

1 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Council members.

2 This is only a draft. You could do whatever you want

3 to do with it. If you want to add or delete portions

4 of it or suggest other issues, you may do so at this

5 time.

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

8 everything here came from the last meeting, didn't it?

9

10 MR. NICK: (Nods affirmatively)

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

13 hopefully we stated ourselves well enough. Has

14 anything additional -- well, this is an annual report,

15 when does the date of that annual time end?

16

17 MR. NICK: If you approve this with

18 just minimum changes, the reason why I put the

19 tentative date -- assuming that you would review and

20 approve this tomorrow, on the 16th, but you could put

21 the date you want on it. This is just a tentative

22 date.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, we do an annual

25 report each year.

26

27 MR. NICK: Yeah -- well

28

29 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So there's, you know,

30 kind of like a starting point and an ending point to

31 that year and our comments should be relevant to that

32 year.

33

34 MR. KRON: It's a calendar year, isn't

35 it?

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, so these

38 are relevant to 2010 and we'll have -- we'll do a new

39 annual report

40

41 MR. NICK: What will happen is after

42 you approve your annual report it will be finalized and

43 the Chair signs it and then submit it to the Federal

44 Board.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, this

47 is what came out of our last meeting. We're going to

48 have opportunities at the next meeting to do a new

49 annual report, you know, where new concerns can be

50 raised or directions that we want to go. It looks okay

 

97

 

1 to me, does anybody see anything that they're aware of

2 in the past year to add or subtract from this report?

3

4 MR. BUCK: I'd like to -- can I make a

5 motion to accept this annual report?

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Thank you, so moved.

8

9 MR. KEYES: I'll second it.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Seconded by

12 Tony. Any more discussion needed.

13

14 (No comments)

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

17

18 MR. SEETOT: Question.

19

20 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Question's

21 been called. The motion is to approve this report as

22 written. All those in favor say aye.

23

24 IN UNISON: Aye.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any opposed.

27

28 (No opposing votes)

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries.

31

32 MR. SMITH: Mike, I'll abstain again

33 because I wasn't on the Council then.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay, thank you,

36 Tim. And we are on to our Council Charter Review.

37

38 Alex.

39

40 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. On Page 57 of

41 your work book you will see your annual report [sic].

42 As you remember in the past when I first got -- well,

43 when I first took over the Seward Peninsula you

44 recommended -- I believe you recommended some changes

45 and I think it had to do with membership, wasn't it - 

46 removal of a member. I remember that recommendation.

47 That was -- I believe we

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, I'm starting to

50 remember this.

 

98

 

1 MR. NICK: Yeah, what happened was your

2 recommendation went in but I think there's no changes

3 on this one. This is only for your review, Mr. Chair.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, on Page 59 it

6 says, removal of members; two consecutive unexcused

7 absences, the Chair may recommend removal. Is that

8 common to all RACs.

9

10 MR. NICK: (Nods affirmatively)

11

12 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay.

13

14 MR. KEYES: So instead of a member, a

15 Chairman has the right to

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, a member may also

18 be removed due to misconduct, we're all members.

19

20 MR. KEYES: Uh-huh.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Do you

23 need an action from us?

24

25 MR. NICK: This is just

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, this is

28 just for our review?

29

30 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. This is for your

31 review and if you see anything that you want to

32 recommend any changes on it you may submit those

33 recommendations at this time.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Certainly I'm

36 satisfied with it.

37

38 MR. KEYES: We should pretty much keep

39 it as it is.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Any other

42 -- anybody got any comments, things you want changed,

43 added, subtracted.

44

45 (No comments)

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. We're

48 going to be satisfied with that Alex. And we'll move

49 on to agency and organization reports.

50

 

99

 

1 Let me pause for a second here. No. 12

2 looks like it's all OSM stuff; is that right, Tom?

3

4 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. A good chunk of

5 it is. But then, again, you get down to 12, B, C, D,

6 E, F

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, all right, let me

9 rephrase that. A looks like a whole bunch of OSM

10 stuff.

11

12 MR. KRON: That's correct, Mr. Chair.

13 And I apologize for that. A lot of this comes out of

14 the Subsistence Program Review, which you heard a lot

15 about and the Federal Board is asking for Regional

16 Advisory Council input on a number of these issues.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

19 where I'm going with this is to skip A and maybe go to

20 B, C, D and E if the people are here and let those

21 people do their thing and then they can get out of

22 here.

23

24 MS. TAHBONE: We don't want to get out

25 of here.

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: What'd you say Sandy?

28

29 MS. TAHBONE: I said we don't want to

30 get out of here.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, that doesn't

33 mean you have to, it just means that you can. I see

34 our highly and paid Preserve Superintendent sitting

35 there waiting for us to get to her turn so, you know, I

36 was just trying to speed things up. She could go on to

37 other more important business than sitting at our

38 meeting.

39

40 MS. POMRENKE: What is more important

41 than subsistence?

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Good come back, I like

44 that.

45

46 (Laughter)

47

48 MS. POMRENKE: I don't mind sitting - 

49 I need to listen to the OSM stuff anyway, so even if I

50 do go I'll still be sitting here.

 

100

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well,

2 where did Tony and

3

4 MR. KEYES: They ran off.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: They ran off.

7

8 MR. PAPPAS: I'll call them at a break.

9

10 MS. POMRENKE: They probably think that

11 they had a little time to go back to the office.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, maybe they're

14 organizing and getting prepared for the next time I

15 don't like their data.

16

17 (Laughter)

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, then

20 hearing that we will move on with A. Is that your

21 deal, Tom, go ahead, please.

22

23 Oh, Alex.

24

25 MR. NICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. On

26 Page 60 of your work book, update on travel procedures.

27

28 Last night during the Council

29 orientation I mentioned a little bit about this. And

30 what I'm going to do is I'm going to read this on

31 record and then I will -- with the help of Tom, I will

32 explain what changes we are to be expecting starting

33 from this meeting.

34

35 Travel arrangements.

36

37 All Federal agencies are required to

38 make all travel arrangements through travel control

39 center, that's Carlson Travel. All the arrangements

40 need to be going through me and then I would forward

41 those travel requests and changes to Carlson Travel.

42

43 All Council member travel arrangements

44 must be made by OSM Staff. If you amend your travel

45 yourself, you will not receive any per diem for travel

46 time after the amended ticket is issued and you may be

47 liable for the cost of air fare. Now, that does not

48 pertain to weather like we're having right now. If you

49 have some problem with travel, you know, due to weather

50 conditions then, you know, you call me and I would

 

101

 

1 forward that information on to the travel, OSM travel.

2

3 Therefore, any changes to your travel

4 absolutely must be made through your coordinator. If

5 you are unable to contact your coordinator call Durand

6 Tyler at 907-786-3888 or 1-800-478-1456, and if you

7 can't contact Durand you may call Ann Wilkinson at 907 

8 786-3676.

9

10 I'll stop there before I move on to

11 travel vouchers for questions you may have.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You wanted to discuss

14 something, Tony.

15

16 MR. KEYES: Yes. I went through this

17 myself, too, when I was at home and then I barely made

18 it out of my village, barely. Weather is a factor

19 regardless if you guys say it ain't, it is. A weather

20 factor. This time of the year our weather is

21 unpredictable. If I wanted -- if -- I was going to

22 come here and if I didn't make it yesterday I would

23 still make all the effort to jump on any first flight

24 that it's coming to Nome so that I can attend this

25 meeting. I don't know why they want a specific airline

26 that we can catch. For instance, what if they have

27 mechanical problem and they can't come out, if that one

28 suggested airline was to be picked for me to fly and if

29 I called in and I say hey I didn't make it in, the back

30 of my hair would raise. So I would, you know, I would

31 clearly make it to where it states that catch the first

32 available flight that you could if you want to attend

33 the meeting, not just making a restriction of having us

34 to go by your abiding rules and say, hey, we picked

35 this airline and you have to use it, what if they don't

36 come; that's the biggest question. And I'm pretty sure

37 Shishmaref is in the same boat as I am too so we have

38 to look at the weather conditions nowadays before

39 anybody puts this on paper.

40

41 So, you know, if I were in that sheet,

42 I would say, catch the first available flight to come

43 to the meeting instead of just being, you know, I have

44 to catch a certain flight.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom.

47

48 MR. KRON: Yeah, just some follow up.

49 Basically the travel per diem system, the Federal

50 government is going to basically all electronics, it's

 

102

 

1 all linked together, and essentially for the Regional

2 Council members, you know, again, basically what we

3 need you to do is to work with Alex. You know the

4 minute there's a problem, call Alex and he'll

5 essentially get the word in to get these adjustments

6 made. The problem we've got is if the adjustments are

7 not made in the electronic system the whole thing just

8 falls apart and it affects per diem at the same time.

9

10 So, again, all we're asking is get a

11 hold of Alex, and if not Alex, Durand or Ann, but

12 basically just let us know what's going on and we'll

13 move heaven and earth to get you to the meetings.

14

15 MR. KEYES: And there's another thing I

16 forgot to mention. Sometimes our telephones and

17 computers will go down for at least a week so to speak,

18 a week and a half, so I'm in the village that you might

19 want to come and join me and you might want to see what

20 electronics is up there.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You can also go see

23 the electronic internet systems at the various air

24 services and see how often they fail.

25

26 Tony brings up a good point. My

27 recommendation, you know, is your goal is to get the

28 person to the meeting, okay. And then the secondary

29 goal, I hope, is to get that person here as

30 economically as possible. But the first goal is the

31 priority. Sticking that person with one reservation

32 with one company with one time does not accomplish the

33 priority goal. The person in the village needs the

34 ability to adjust to changes that particular day.

35 Almost all these villages have two flights per day in

36 this region, I'm going to limit my comments to this

37 region, two flights per day with two different

38 entities, aviation businesses. I recommend that you

39 give these people the ability to get on whichever

40 flight they want to get on that day and hopefully

41 they'll make those choices wisely, you know, if the

42 weather's good then they can do whatever you want them

43 to, but if they got to call Alex and they got to call

44 Durand, well, the weather might have closed in and the

45 guy ain't going to be here, you know, and the guy on

46 the ground's got the best ability to look at his

47 weather forecast and say, well, if I don't get on this

48 morning flight I ain't getting there or to say, well, I

49 can't get on -- you know, Bering Air cancelled, but

50 it's supposed to be 10,000 overcast and 10 miles by

 

103

 

1 4:00 p.m., so I can get on the evening flight.

2

3 So the overriding goal is to get the

4 guy to the meeting, and economically, I think what I'm

5 suggesting is the better process because now he doesn't

6 have to call Alex and Durand and worry and, okay, go

7 ahead.

8

9 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Personally I

10 agree with you 100 percent. The challenge we got is

11 we're working with standards that have been set up for

12 the Federal government across the country. You know

13 the travel arrangements for this meeting have to use

14 that new Federal travel system, your checks come out of

15 Denver, you know, we're trying to explain the situation

16 here in Alaska to people in Washington, D.C., and

17 Denver, and frankly a bunch of those folks, you know,

18 don't understand very well. I will talk to Durand and

19 Ann when I get back to see what flexibility we have,

20 but, again, from what we're hearing is that our options

21 and flexibility are not what they were in the past and

22 we're basically being told we've got to do this way,

23 period, we don't have those options.

24

25 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, per diem's a

26 separate issue.

27

28 MR. KRON: It's connected. They are

29 directly connected.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: The guy's got to get

32 to Nome before he gets per diem. If he don't get to

33 Nome he ain't getting it, right?

34

35 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. And, again, what

36 I was trying to explain is that essentially the per

37 diem and the travel arrangements are connected

38 direction in this electronic system. And to the extent

39 that we deviate from what's in the electronic system,

40 that's where we get into problems, that's why we need

41 those changes

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, are you telling

44 me that a guy who doesn't get on his plane because of

45 weather might still get a per diem check?

46

47 MR. KRON: No.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So it's

50 separated enough that you know whether the guy gets

 

104

 

1 here or not and you know whether he's going to get a

2 check or not?

3

4 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. I distributed

5 checks this morning and those checks went to the people

6 that are here.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, now, you're

9 making me think that separation doesn't occur and, I

10 mean, you've got control of the checks, why don't you

11 have control of the travel arrangements?

12

13 (Laughter)

14

15 MR. KRON: I have control of the

16 checks, given that they were mailed from Denver to

17 Anchorage and Durand gave them to me yesterday morning

18 and my responsibility is to provide them to the people

19 around the table here from outside of Nome and they had

20 to sign that they received them. That's the control I

21 have.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right.

24

25 MR. KRON: Very limited.

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I'll bet

28

29 MR. KRON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Durand can make a

32 phone call to ERA and Bering Air and say, Tony Keyes

33 has authorization to travel to Nome on this date on

34 whichever flight he gets on this date; if he doesn't

35 get on Bering Air then Bering Air ain't going to bill

36 you for the flight. Okay, I'm probably going too far.

37 But you guys can play with this system enough to make

38 it work a little better. I'm not going to accept the

39 answer that, you know -- after you just told me you got

40 checks in your hand, you lost all credibility at that

41 point with your statement, and you guys can play with

42 this thing and make it work.

43

44 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

47

48 MR. BUCK: First of all I'd like to

49 thank Alex Nick for the coordination that he has been

50 doing for our organization, he followed Barb Armstrong,

 

105

 

1 and he's doing a good job and he's always asked me

2 which airline I want to fly with. And the people in

3 this region fly all over this Nome and to the villages

4 and they do have preferences for airlines, they have

5 preferences for who they want to fly, so we have to

6 keep that in mind if you're going to send one of the

7 Council members, ask him which airline he'd rather fly

8 with.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, that kind of

11 goes against what I was just saying.

12

13 (Laughter)

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

16

17 MR. KRON: I need to work on getting

18 some credibility back here.

19

20 (Laughter)

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It's an uphill battle.

23

24 (Laughter)

25

26 MR. KRON: But, again, the request - 

27 basically the request and what Alex was conveying was

28 that if Anthony, again, cannot make his flight, weather

29 or whatever, basically Durand has the capability to

30 make changes to get on the next flight, get him on the

31 next day, you know, and, again, I understand telephone

32 communications are a problem in this whole mix, but

33 basically what we need is for Durand to make the

34 changes in the electronic system to get Anthony from

35 Wales to Nome. And we're going to do all we can to

36 make that happen, but we've got to be working through

37 that system that they imposed on us for the travel

38 process.

39

40 So that's the request.

41

42 Anyway, when people have various kinds

43 of problems, we just need them to call Alex, you know,

44 or call Durand or Ann and we'll do all we can to make

45 it happen.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, Alex, I'm going

48 to guess that you have a little better understanding of

49 this problem than people who live in Anchorage and so

50 we'll just hope that you can work with Durand to

 

106

 

1 increase the options available to any one member to get

2 here.

3

4 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Members of the

5 Council. I do the best I can to make your travel

6 arrangements. And we make the travel arrangements to

7 assure that there is room for you to travel far in

8 advance. Unfortunately sometimes, you know, no matter

9 how we try there's some little problems to the system,

10 and from -- you know sometimes there will be -- like in

11 YK, for example, there would be some problem that the

12 system could not recognize. One time YK RACs Chairman

13 was stuck in the airport because he did not have a

14 ticket and it was not our fault it was the system's

15 fault that made that happen.

16

17 Anyway, what we're talking about here

18 is that everything is probably going to be handled

19 electronically and when the system don't recognize like

20 -- what was it Peter Buck mentioned, that you should

21 have flexibility to switch to another airline. Some of

22 those airlines are not even in the system, computer

23 system, and if they're not in the computer system then

24 I also would have problem working with our travel

25 agency. So it's not easy on our part sometimes and

26 it's very difficult especially when travel changes are

27 occurring in some areas, like this area for example.

28

29 I wanted to mention that.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, I'm not

32 remembering all my aviation stuff either. These guys

33 don't like maybes they want confirmed reservations with

34 money in their bank accounts so what I'm arguing for

35 isn't 100 percent achievable anyway. My credibility's

36 now suffering.

37

38 (Laughter)

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

41

42 MR. KEYES: I have another suggestion,

43 if you guys might bear with me, being a RAC member is,

44 number 1 a good thing for your village; number 2 is

45 trying to get your body into Nome so that you can go to

46 a meeting, but if you cannot make it to a meeting, if

47 you cannot jump on the plane, would it still be okay to

48 do it telephonically?

49

50 MR. KRON: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Keyes.

 

107

 

1 The answer is yes. And we do that at a number of the

2 meetings when people are just unable to come.

3

4 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

5

6 MR. KEYES: I wanted to bring that up

7 so that everybody else would, you know, will get to

8 know what could happen and what you can do if you are

9 stranded in the village.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

12

13 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Can I move on?

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, that's exactly

16 what I was going to say, Alex, keep going.

17

18 (Laughter)

19

20 MR. NICK: Okay. The next one is

21 travel vouchers.

22

23 The US Fish and Wildlife Service

24 nationwide is preparing to initiate new software for

25 the Federal financial business management system at the

26 start of fiscal year 2012, beginning from October 1,

27 2011, which will extend time when OSM cannot make

28 purchases or payments. There are two ways that this

29 might affect you directly.

30

31 One, members who make a last minute

32 decision to attend a Council meeting may not receive a

33 travel advance; and, two;

34

35 Travel vouchers for the fall 2011

36 Council meetings will be delayed.

37

38 And what I want to add is it's my

39 understanding that the checks and reimbursements will

40 no longer be mailed directly to Council members

41 addresses, all checks will be sent to OSM and then on

42 to the Council members addresses from now on, beginning

43 from this meeting.

44

45 And what I want to stress at this point

46 is I've mentioned to you before that when you return,

47 you need to let me know what day and what time of the

48 day you return so that I could contact Durand Tyler,

49 who is the travel guy for OSM and he would figure out

50 how much per diem you would get upon your return. If

 

108

 

1 you are weatherbound, for example, you know, you may

2 let me know later when you arrive back home. But as

3 soon as you return you need to let me know and also

4 send you travel receipts, like taxi cab receipts to me

5 or to Durand by fax so that those will be attached to

6 your travel voucher for reimbursement.

7

8 Peter, you had a comment.

9

10 MR. MARTIN: Yeah, I was just going to

11 comment doesn't it seem like it doesn't have to be

12 direct to you, that if we have the phone numbers for

13 Durand and Ann, couldn't we just give them a call and

14 say when we made it home?

15

16 MR. NICK: Yeah. Yeah, either me or

17 Durand.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

20

21 MR. KEYES: What you didn't really

22 clarify on getting reimbursements back, your

23 reimbursements will be to and for airport or to your

24 location, your location back to the airport?

25

26 MR. NICK: Yeah, thank you, Tony. I

27 forgot to mention that when you return -- rather when

28 you leave your residence, when you are traveling to

29 these meetings, that's the time you begin your travel

30 until the time you return to your residence rather than

31 on your way home.

32

33 MR. KRON: Just some followup. Again,

34 what we're looking at, this next fall, and basically

35 Alex will be working with Durand, probably in July, in

36 the middle of the summer, to get all the arrangements

37 for the meeting, to figure out where you're going to

38 meet, to arrange for the payment of the meeting place,

39 for the hotel rooms, the airplane tickets, everything

40 will probably have to be done in July. And what we're

41 looking at is right around the change of the fiscal

42 year, you know, and I don't have the exact dates when

43 they're going to freeze up the system, but pretty much

44 most of September and a good share of October, we won't

45 be able to do anything so we've got to get everything

46 done in advance and then when they get the system back

47 up, at that point, then they'll start sending out the

48 checks for the vouchers, you know, the closeout per

49 diem checks for any taxi cabs and the additional per

50 diem amounts.

 

109

 

1 So, again, we're just letting you know

2 that this is happening and it's governmentwide, it's

3 not just us in Alaska. It's, you know, the Fish and

4 Wildlife Service and I believe the Federal government

5 nationwide. And it's going to impact us, it's going to

6 happen right during our Council meeting window next

7 fall and we just wanted to let people know in advance.

8

9 So we're going to be planning early for

10 next fall's meeting and then, again, the final payment

11 checks going out to all the members will be later than

12 normal, it probably won't be until the end of October,

13 for example.

14

15 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

16

17 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

20

21 MR. BUCK: I have another question,

22 maybe you know the answer or not, I don't know. But

23 what is it, one-fourth of our per diem is not delivered

24 to us until we get to the village, I was wondering, why

25 is that?

26

27 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Mr. Buck. When

28 you receive your per diem advance, like for this

29 meeting, you receive 75 percent of your per diem,

30 that's the estimated per diem that, you know, assuming

31 that your meeting will go through tomorrow. Now,

32 because we might be done early you might end up -- when

33 you return home earlier you might end up owing

34 government some money so that the money that's supposed

35 to come back to you, which is 25 percent of your per

36 diem that you receive, plus maybe a little more than

37 that might be deducted from your next advance; that's

38 the way it works.

39

40 It's important when you return to let

41 us know what time you make it home so that we'll figure

42 out your reimbursement.

43

44 Does that answer your question, Mr.

45 Buck?

46

47 MR. BUCK: I guess so.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. I'm going

50 to kind of move things along here. Let's go on to No.

 

110

 

1 2 here, the Secretarial Program Review.

2

3 Tom.

4

5 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Again, Tom Kron,

6 from OSM. The first item under two is a letter from

7 the Secretary to the Federal Subsistence Board Chair,

8 Tim Towarak, that's on Page 61, it is there for your

9 reference.

10

11 Within that letter is a list of a lot

12 of items that the Secretary wants Tim and the Federal

13 Board to work on. And all the items from B on down to

14 -- actually 2B all the way down through 3 are items

15 that essentially the Board and Tim are working on at

16 the request of the Secretary. And, again, as I

17 mentioned earlier, the Federal Subsistence Board and

18 Tim are looking for your input along with the input

19 from all the other Councils, the other nine Councils on

20 how they should proceed on some of these items.

21

22 The first item, again, you can look at

23 the letter to Chairman Towarak there, but, again, the

24 items under B and on down through 3 are all pieces

25 within that and expansions of that.

26

27 So I'm going to go ahead and move right

28 down to Bi, expansion of the Board to include two new

29 members representing rural Alaskan subsistence users.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay.

32

33 MR. KRON: And I've got a news release

34 here and a briefing and I'm going to pass them around.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: He's talking about

37 this here.

38

39 MR. KRON: This was just announced,

40 I'll give these to Alex -- the way the Federal system

41 works, again, the Secretary indicated an interest in

42 doing this, but the way it has to be accomplished is

43 through a Proposed Rule, it's called. And the Proposed

44 Rule was entered into the Federal Register on Friday,

45 last Friday, so just recently, and it's open for

46 comment for 60 days and at all of the Regional Council

47 meetings, and, here, today, we'd like to ask you what

48 you think about doing this. And I'll briefly, while

49 Alex is passing these out, I think many of you, if not

50 all of you have already heard of this, but I'll just

 

111

 

1 give you a brief overview of the situation.

2

3 The Assistant to the Secretary of

4 Interior for Alaska, Pat Pourchot, worked with OSM to

5 develop a Proposed Rule to make this change. The

6 Proposed Rule was published on Friday, last Friday,

7 with a 60 day public comment period. The Board will

8 review the public comments at its public meetings on

9 May 3rd, 2011; this coming May 3rd, and provide its

10 recommendations to the Secretaries, the Secretaries of

11 Agriculture and Interior will make the final

12 determination on whether or how this change is to be

13 made. This proposed change would expand the Board to

14 include two new members. Additional changes to the

15 regulations are also proposed to clarify the

16 designation of alternates for Federal agency members

17 and to increase the size of the quorum to take into

18 account the two new members. The Federal Subsistence

19 Board, acting for the Secretaries, is seeking comments

20 on this proposed regulatory change to expand the Board

21 to include two public members representing rural

22 Alaskan subsistence users.

23

24 And, again, this is the opportunity for

25 the Regional Councils and this Regional Council to

26 weigh in with their thoughts as to this proposed

27 expansion of the Federal Subsistence Board. Do you

28 think it's a good idea? Do you think it's a bad idea?

29 Do you have ideas as to how to change it? And I'll

30 leave it at that, but we are definitely seeking -- the

31 Federal Board and Tim are seeking your perspective on

32 this idea.

33

34 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, so I see legal

37 writing here to change the Federal regulations so that

38 the voting members of the Board are yada-yada, two

39 public members representing rural Alaska subsistence

40 users to be appointed by the two Secretaries. But

41 other than that you don't have any language as to how

42 to select those two members.

43

44 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. That is correct.

45 The proposed regulation says nothing about the

46 selection process for the two members. It only adds

47 language and increases the quorum. Essentially that'll

48 be up to the Secretaries.

49

50 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

112

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So everybody just gets

2 to throw names in the hat and the Secretaries get to

3 choose?

4

5 MR. KRON: Again, as we discussed

6 earlier, you all were appointed by the Secretary and,

7 again, the Secretary would be appointing these two

8 additional Board members, should this process move

9 forward.

10

11 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

12

13 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

16

17 MR. BUCK: I would like to have the RAC

18 members -- if the Secretary has a list of people that

19 he's thinking about appointing, the RAC members should

20 have that list and the Federal Subsistence Board so

21 that the recommendations are -- they are given a chance

22 to make recommendations on the people nominated.

23

24 Thank you.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, I'm aware of

27 that. You know, all the other members are fairly

28 specifically mentioned as to who they are and how you

29 qualify for the membership on the Board. This one's a

30 little more gray and it looks like a good opportunity

31 for everybody to argue over who to select on there.

32 Everybody's going to want their favorite and there's

33 going to be a lot of unhappy people when it's all said

34 and done, I'm thinking.

35

36 MR. KEYES: Better take your guns.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah.

39

40 (Laughter)

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Anybody else want to

43 say anything -- okay, well, Tom, you had your hand up

44 first.

45

46 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair, again, just

47 for clarification. All we're talking about at this

48 point is whether or not they should do it, whether or

49 not they should add two public members to represent

50 rural Alaskans. Again, the Federal Board's going to

 

113

 

1 meet in May and review comments from this Council, the

2 other Councils, any public members or agencies that

3 want to weigh in and then they, in turn, will pass on

4 their recommendation to the Secretaries. If this is

5 approved and adopted, at that point then I would assume

6 that the Secretary would initiate a request for names

7 of people that are interested, those names would be

8 considered and then there would be a selection that

9 would occur later on down the road.

10

11 The only thing we've got in front of us

12 right now is just the ability to add two members.

13

14 And, again, the Board is asking

15 specifically for your input and they're going to

16 consider that input at the early May meeting.

17

18 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19

20 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Just a minute Peter.

23

24 MR. SMITH: Go ahead.

25

26 MR. BUCK: I have another comment on

27 the third paragraph down for the Federal Subsistence

28 Board, and it says two public members representing

29 rural Alaska subsistence users; why couldn't it be two

30 subsistence members representing rural Alaska

31 subsistence users?

32

33 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, that's not what

34 they stuck in there so we're stuck with what's written

35 there. Two public members to represent -- I think the

36 assumption is that they will be subsistence users, that

37 was the whole point of the request by AFN, if I

38 remember right -- okay, Tom.

39

40 MR. KRON: Yeah, Mr. Chair. I think

41 this is the exact terminology that was in the letter

42 from the Secretary, that was the way it was worded

43 there, it was carried over into the Proposed Rule.

44 And, you know, it is what it is, but it's direction

45 coming down from the Secretary. The Secretary will

46 ultimately be making the call on this.

47

48 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tim.

 

114

 

1 MR. SMITH: Are you addressing a motion

2 to support this proposal?

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes, I am, and if I

5 remember correctly I got some communication from

6 Barbara and I believe somebody from each RAC will be at

7 this May meeting; is that correct?

8

9 MR. KRON: (Nods affirmatively)

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So in addition to us

12 doing a motion and whatever, somebody's going to get

13 some money to go to this meeting and participate in

14 this as well.

15

16 MR. SMITH: Okay, well, Tim Smith, and

17 I move that the Council support the recommendation to

18 put two citizen members on the Federal Subsistence

19 Board.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, so moved, thank

22 you, Tim.

23

24 MR. KEYES: I will second that.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, second,

27 Tony. Discussion.

28

29 MR. SMITH: I don't see how it could

30 hurt, you know, it's totally going to be beneficial to

31 have people, additional people who aren't Federal

32 employees speaking for subsistence users.

33

34 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sure.

35

36 MR. SMITH: It's not going to -- you

37 know, they're not going to have a majority vote or

38 anything, it won't make a profound difference but it

39 certainly can't hurt. I don't see any reason not to

40 support it.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom, will there be

43 opportunity at the Board meeting to discuss rewording

44 this language? I guess where I'm going is I'd like to

45 see something a little more specific. Right now the

46 way it's worded we could get two members from

47 Ninilchik, we could get two members from Barrow or, you

48 know, I mean like I said the others are specific, you

49 know, we've got a Park Service person so hopefully

50 they're knowledge about Park Service and we have a BLM

 

115

 

1 person, well, you know, what are going to end up with

2 here, two guys who live in Ninilchik and haven't paid

3 attention to Seward Peninsula issues for their whole

4 life or two guys that live in Barrow and haven't paid

5 attention to Ninilchik issues their whole lives, you

6 know, and I guess so is there opportunity to play with

7 the wording?

8

9 Okay, Tom.

10

11 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Again, this is a

12 Proposed Rule, it's proposed wording. And, I guess,

13 I'm sure, you know, across the 10 Regional Councils and

14 with public there will be discussion about how to make

15 adjustments to this wording. But, again, the concept

16 is to add two additional members of the public. The

17 Secretary was real specific in the words that he chose

18 and those have been carried over here, but I'm sure

19 there will be discussion and opportunity, you know, the

20 intent -- the plan is that each Regional Council Chair

21 would be able to be there at the meeting to participate

22 in that discussion and the decision to explain how

23 their discussion at the Regional Council, you know,

24 leading up to that Regional Council's recommendation.

25 So, you know, I think the opportunity is there.

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sandy.

28

29 MR. RABINOWITCH: Thank you for calling

30 on me and letting me jump into the conversation.

31

32 I would stress the point that this is

33 your Council's opportunity to comment on this, and I

34 think you can do that in any number of ways.

35

36 When the May meeting comes about, your

37 Council will have met, your Council will have put on

38 the record whatever you do, and that's all your

39 representative can really speak to because they're

40 there representing the Council. So a for example, and

41 I do not want to put words in your mouth, or anyone's

42 mouth, but if you thought there should be some words

43 added to this Proposed Rule, this is really a time, as

44 a Council, to make that suggestion or maybe multiple

45 suggestions.

46

47 You could also -- so I'm just kind of

48 thinking out loud, but you might also just have several

49 things that you're concerned about, you know, like a

50 bullet list, and your Council could offer; here's a

 

116

 

1 list of our concerns. So you can be real specific.

2 You can be general. You can really do anything you

3 want. But as a Council this is your moment on this

4 topic. And so I would just really stress that and

5 encourage you to put on the record, you know, whatever

6 you all think.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tom.

9

10 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. And, again, just

11 to follow up on what Sandy said, you know, just like

12 when you weigh in on fish proposals or wildlife

13 proposals, you know, the proposed regulatory language,

14 you change, you add sentences, you change words to make

15 them make more sense to you; this is your opportunity

16 to do that and Sandy's exactly right, you know, feel

17 free, if you think this should be changed, this is the

18 place to do it and your Chair will be there to discuss

19 the rationale with the Board.

20

21 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Tony.

24

25 MR. KEYES: Okay. What I came up with

26 after reading that, two public members representing

27 rural Alaskan subsistence users to be appointed by the

28 Secretary -- what I came up with was -- adding two

29 elderly Alaskan subsistence users that could be

30 appointed by the Secretary.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You got to define

33 elderly.

34

35 (Laughter)

36

37 MR. KEYES: Elders, such as 65 and

38 older. If we have elders attending they'll pull out a

39 lot of knowledge that we do not see in our papers that

40 we might have missed.

41

42 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Peter.

43

44 MR. MARTIN: Mr. Chairman. State of

45 Alaska, Regional Council have two members, which is

46 appointed by our council, the IRA Council at this time.

47 And I think it's there -- this idea we'll work for

48 subsistence -- Federal Subsistence Advisory Board too.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Peter.

 

117

 

1 MR. BUCK: The way I see it, the

2 Secretary's appointing two people, subsistence users,

3 and we have nothing to say about it. And I'd like the

4 RAC committees to get together with a list of names,

5 submit it to the Chairman of the Board with those two

6 recommendations, make the recommendation to the -- for

7 the appointment. That's a better process than what I

8 see here.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, so, you know, if

11 they approve this language, nothing's going to happen

12 until it all goes through the process and the language

13 gets approved

14

15 MR. KRON: Yep.

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: then we'll start

18 picking names.

19

20 MR. KRON: Yep.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So for the

23 time being, you know, we're just going to approve the

24 language that goes into the Federal Register for this

25 new change, however, according to Sandy we could be a

26 little more picky or offer our own suggestions at this

27 time.

28

29 Do you have any desire to alter your

30 motion?

31

32 MR. SMITH: Well, I think this would

33 just be discussion related to the motion will support

34 it. But these are the considerations that we might

35 want to see considered by the Secretary. It looks like

36 the Secretary's not going to relinquish his discretion

37 in appointing. He may want to take our wishes into

38 account.

39

40 I think that the criteria used for

41 selecting Regional Advisory Council members would be

42 good to use in these selections too. I think that

43 knowledge of the resources, and knowledge of the uses

44 of the resources should be the most important criteria

45 used in selection.

46

47 I think Peter's suggestion is going to

48 be kind of tough because, you know, there's going to be

49 two people selected for the whole state, chances are we

50 won't know them. I mean how would we -- how would we

 

118

 

1 know if they get a couple guys from Southeastern or

2 from, you know, way up the Yukon or something, we won't

3 know anything about them, I don't know how we could we

4 even make a call on that.

5

6 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yes, Peter.

9

10 MR. BUCK: I also see that the

11 subsistence resources all over Alaska are different and

12 then if you're going to choose two people out of all of

13 Alaska you're going to be missing out on a lot of

14 resources that should be considered, so that kind of - 

15 that's what I think.

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It sounds like a big

18 job because, you know, the Park Service guy, well, or

19 girl, their knowledge is like I said Parks. And the

20 BLM guy's knowledge is BLM. But these two people,

21 what's their knowledge going to be other than the small

22 area of the world, or the state that they've lived in

23 most of their life, yet, they're thrust into a

24 decision-making process that truthfully requires a lot

25 of knowledge. I'm a little disappointed with the

26 wording and I could certainly come up with all kinds of

27 suggestions to change it but in the long-run I'm not

28 sure anything would be accomplished myself.

29

30 I can't imagine being one of those guys

31 and then after a meeting having half the people in the

32 state mad at you.

33

34 (Laughter)

35

36 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I mean I made the

37 motion, I'm not sure that I really feel that strongly

38 that it's a good thing. I think it's going to be

39 impossible to select two people that will really be

40 able to add an awful lot to the Council -- to the

41 process, but I mean I don't see how it would hurt

42 anything.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: No, it's not going to

45 -- well, I don't know it depends on your perspective.

46

47 All right, so we've got a motion on the

48 floor with a second to support this idea and is there

49 any more discussion.

50

 

119

 

1 (No comments)

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Seeing -- hearing

4 none, if somebody would like to call the question.

5

6 MR. MARTIN: Question.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. All those in

9 favor of the motion to support the current language

10 shown before us on this new change say aye.

11

12 IN UNISON: Aye.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And any opposed.

15

16 (No opposing votes)

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Motion carries.

19 You're kind of recording this Tom since Alex went

20 somewhere?

21

22 MR. KRON: Yes, Mr. Chair. Again,

23 Tina's got every word, even our uhs.

24

25 (Laughter)

26

27 MR. KRON: So she's got it all. And,

28 again, I will put together a summary of what I heard,

29 basically you're supporting the current language and I

30 heard in addition to that, in terms of that discussion

31 I heard discussion about the need to possibly consider

32 elderly Alaska subsistence users, knowledge of the

33 subsistence resources, knowledge of subsistence as

34 items as items that need part of the discussion.

35

36 (Council nods affirmatively)

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I saw a thumb's up. I

39 think I'm gaining some credibility back here.

40

41 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

42

43 (Laughter)

44

45 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You can tell Pete he

46 lost all his credibility by not being here too.

47

48 (Laughter)

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And I still haven't

 

120

 

1 met Polly, I'm upset with that.

2

3 Oh, well, okay, so does that cover both

4 items under B or do you need to go through -- oh

5 there's more than -- oh, heck, what's this next one,

6 ii?

7

8 MR. KRON: Okay, Mr. Chair, and I guess

9 would refer -- if people can kind of just open up to

10 Pages 78 to 80. We realized there was a lot of stuff

11 here and we thought it'd be helpful to kind of just lay

12 it out in the table that people could look at as we go

13 through.

14

15 Again, ii, is just an informational

16 issue for the Councils. We wanted to just let you know

17 about it. There's some things -- you know, as you know

18 the Councils receive deference on the take issue but

19 there are other things out there like customary and

20 traditional use determinations, rural, in-season

21 management issues that have not been granted that

22 deference. And the Secretary has asked the Board to

23 look at those issues very carefully and see to what

24 extent they can also provide deference to the Council

25 on those other three issues. So the Board is looking

26 at that right now, trying to see what they can do to

27 give more deference to the Regional Councils.

28

29 And, again, I just wanted to point that

30 out as another issue that the Board is looking at.

31

32 So that's ii. But, again, the Board is

33 not asking for, you know, any recommendation or just

34 discussion under that issue, but they wanted to let you

35 know.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

38

39 MR. KRON: iii is an action item

40 though, we definitely want to hear your input on - 

41 they want to hear your input on iii.

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, let's move

44 on to iii then.

45

46 MR. KRON: Okay. iii. Memorandum of

47 Understanding. Again, there's a briefing on Page 65,

48 the actual Memorandum of Understanding is on Page 67.

49 And, again this is an opportunity the Board,

50 specifically, and Tim would like to have your

 

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1 perspective on the MOU. And, again, I'm not sure if - 

2 if people haven't read it before, I'm sure everybody's

3 probably heard about it, but it might make some sense

4 if you haven't actually read it, to take a short break

5 and give people a chance to read it before we talk

6 about it, but it's your call.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I'm willing to

9 do that but I ain't letting you have a break until

10 3:30, so can we skip iii and move on to iv?

11

12 MR. KRON: We can do that.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And do you want input

15 from Councils on that?

16

17 MR. KRON: Well, we want -- the Board

18 is seeking -- it's not me -- the Board is seeking your

19 input on iii and also on iv; I think iv might be a

20 little bit quicker. Do you want me to talk about iv?

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Yeah, talk about iv,

23 and we'll try and quick comment on that.

24

25 MR. KRON: Okay, very quickly, and

26 we're on to iv, customary and traditional use

27 determinations. And, again, this is an opportunity for

28 the Regional Advisory Councils to weigh in on, at a

29 very general level, before the Federal Subsistence

30 Board looks at regulatory changes. It, first, wants to

31 assess if regulatory changes are even needed. To date

32 more than 300 C&T determinations have been done. The

33 decision on C&T has been affirmed by the courts when

34 they have been challenged. At this point the Federal

35 Subsistence Board is interested in what the Regional

36 Advisory Councils think about the existing process for

37 C&Ts and as so, is asking two very general questions.

38

39 Is the current process working for you?

40

41 If not, how or what would you change?

42

43 And, again, I've been directed to take

44 very good notes of your discussion and report. And,

45 again, if you've got specific comments or concerns

46 about the customary and traditional use determination

47 process, we would very much like to hear them.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, does anybody

50 have comments on C&T use determinations? I know we've

 

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1 gone over some of this in the past, Helen Armstrong's

2 reviewed it.

3

4 MR. KRON: Yep.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: But some members

7 weren't here for that.

8

9 Did you want to say something?

10

11 MR. SMITH: Yeah. I've been involved

12 in C&T findings for -- on the State level, I haven't

13 been with the Federal level for muskoxen and for chum

14 salmon. And my concern with the process is it's way

15 too arbitrary. I'd like to see better guidelines for

16 establishing C&T findings. And I realize how difficult

17 that would be to produce. But I'm just real unha - 

18 I'm doubtful with the way things are done. We went

19 through two C&T findings for muskoxen, the first time

20 the Board found no C&T, and the second time they found

21 for C&T with the same data. You know, I presented

22 information at both of those hearings, gave them the

23 same historical information in both cases and they did

24 a 180 degrees opposite. So, to me, it's way too

25 arbitrary, depends on who's on the Board, and so there

26 needs to be a better way to do it, I think, a much more

27 objective way to do it.

28

29 MR. KRON: Mr. Chairman. What

30

31 REPORTER: Wait. Tom. Tom.

32

33 MR. KRON: Alex is

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You turned your mic

36 off, turn it on.

37

38 MR. KRON: Okay. Mr. Chair. What Alex

39 is passing out is a list of the eight factors that is

40 used in the Federal Subsistence Program, and these are

41 the things that Helen Armstrong was referencing in the

42 C&T analysis that she has done for this Council. And

43 it basically goes through, you know, the process, that

44 you see any time there's a proposal to change or to add

45 a C&T determination,this is the framework that is used

46 on the Federal side.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

49

50 MR. SMITH: This looks almost exactly

 

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1 the same as the one used by the State but it still is

2 pretty arbitrary.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, we -- you know

5 it's a process that's -- well, how do I say it, it's a

6 dynamic process, it doesn't end, and things change. I

7 believe, just in my, whatever number of years of

8 participation, we've actually changed some C&T

9 determinations, you know, it's more of a regional thing

10 at the Federal level, or location, than it is at the

11 State -- well, I don't know, but anyway, you know, and

12 we certainly have opportunities to change them again in

13 the future if we see or if anyone sees that use

14 patterns have changed. I certainly support that. I

15 don't want it to be a static thing where, because you

16 had it in the past you have it forever and because you

17 didn't have it in the past you're never going to have

18 it.

19

20 So the Federal system seems to allow a

21 fair amount of opportunity for change as things change.

22

23 Did you want to say something, Tom?

24

25 MR. KRON: No, thanks.

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I've been satisfied

28 with the process.

29

30 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

33

34 MR. BUCK: The one customary and

35 traditional use that we didn't have in this area was

36 the muskox until -- until it was introduced and then

37 now with this process it's been established where we do

38 have C&T for muskox now since we've had it for what,

39 not very long now for the muskox, but we never did have

40 the C&T for muskox before.

41

42 But I think the C&T was still there.

43 The families in the region shared with each other and

44 they took game and they took a certain -- it didn't

45 matter what kind of game it is, they divide it up

46 between each other so they had their own C&T. And C&T,

47 even though we get new species, the C&T will still be

48 there.

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Does that satisfy your

 

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1 need for Council input.

2

3 MR. KRON: If you're satisfied, I'm

4 satisfied Mr. Chair.

5

6 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, I

7 can certainly see Tim's comments being -- I'd say a

8 little more valid in areas where things change faster,

9 there's more people involved, there's also

10 determinations of rural and non-rural involved and

11 having more specific guidelines could be of assistance.

12 From my experience it's worked fairly satisfactory out

13 here. We've got plenty of information that people in

14 -- we got fewer people involved altogether over a large

15 -- pretty large area.

16

17 MR. SMITH: My objection was mostly on

18 the arbitrary nature of it, you know, I mean it's - 

19 you look at the information but there's really no ruler

20 to use to decide whether it -- you know, like I said

21 with muskoxen, the first time it was no finding of C&T

22 and the second time it was a finding -- a positive

23 finding of C&T with the same information, the same

24 historical information. It seems like the process

25 should be a little more objective than that, but I

26 don't really have a good way of doing that either. I

27 know it's really difficult to decide, you know,

28 particularly with an introduced species like muskoxen.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. So where's

31 my watch, well, it's almost 3:30, so we'll take our

32 break, about 10 minutes, and come back -- oh, so

33 everybody's supposed to, if you can read the Memorandum

34 of Understanding and then we'll give you some comment

35 on that.

36

37 (Off record)

38

39 (On record)

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I'm going to call this

42 back to order. So we're going to do the Memorandum of

43 Understanding. Are you going to give us any more, I

44 guess.

45

46 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Just real

47 briefly. And I'll touch on some of the key points

48 there in the briefing that's on Page 65.

49

50 The Federal Subsistence Board is

 

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1 seeking input from all 10 Regional Councils on the MOU

2 during this current cycle, and, again, you guys are

3 first in the 10 cycle meeting this winter.

4

5 When the Federal Subsistence Program

6 expanded into subsistence fishery management in 1999,

7 both Federal and State entities believed that the MOU

8 would help with the coordination of subsistence

9 management between Federal and State programs. As a

10 result an MOA, a Memorandum of Agreement was negotiated

11 between the State and Federal team that included

12 Regional Advisory Council representatives. It was

13 initiated by all parties in April 2000.

14

15 In 2008 the MOU, which is based on the

16 MOA was developed by a team of State and Federal

17 officials over a period of about one year and was

18 signed in 2008. FACA, or the Federal Advisory

19 Committee Act concerns precluded RAC Members from being

20 on the development team for that process, based on the

21 Solicitor's office recommendations.

22

23 The purpose of the MOU is to provide a

24 foundation and direction for coordinated inter-agency

25 fish and wildlife management for subsistence uses on

26 Federal lands, while allowing Federal and State

27 agencies to continue to act in accordance with their

28 representative statute authorities.

29

30 And down to key points.

31

32 The MOU helps to address communication

33 and coordination between State and Federal governments.

34

35 Several sections in Title VIII

36 expressly require the Secretaries to communicate and

37 coordinate and consult with the State representatives.

38

39 The MOU was carefully reviewed by the

40 Federal team and legal counsel to ensure that the

41 provisions of Federal law and the Board's obligations

42 to rural residents as defined in Title VIII of ANILCA

43 continue to be maintained.

44

45 The body of the MOU contains several

46 references to State law and has prompted some observers

47 to express concern that the signing -- that in signing

48 the MOU the Board undermined its obligations to Title

49 VIII to provide for a subsistence priority for rural

50 Alaskans on Federal land.

 

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1 However, the Board's authority, charge

2 and obligations to rural residents came only from Title

3 VIII, and any other applicable Federal statutes, the

4 MOU will not, cannot and does not change that.

5

6 And, again, the Federal Subsistence

7 Board is looking for your input at this meeting. And

8 the Federal Subsistence Board review period is open

9 between now and May 1st, and, again, they'll be looking

10 at your comments and deciding, you know, where to go

11 from here.

12

13 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, thank you, Tom.

16 And hopefully everybody's just as uninformed on this as

17 I am.

18

19 (Laughter)

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I don't know. Tom

22 there used to be a seat at the table for a -- a non 

23 voting seat at the table of the Subsistence Board by a

24 State guy, I believe that's no longer the case; is that

25 right?

26

27 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. A number of

28 years ago the State of Alaska specifically asked for a

29 non-voting seat at the Federal Subsistence Board table.

30 Based on a document from 1992 it's my understanding

31 that at that point there was agreement that they should

32 have a seat, but, again, they didn't ask for one until,

33 I think it was about five years ago, they were granted

34 a seat at the table, essentially a -- basically the

35 Chair that they've occupied has moved around a little

36 bit. The way things are set up and then Mr. Buck saw

37 it and Tim saw it there in Anchorage, essentially

38 you've got the Federal Board essentially where your

39 table is, Regional Councils on either side, and the

40 State essentially was to my left right over here on

41 this side, like where Tina's sitting, that's the way

42 things are arranged, but essentially it's the -- the

43 State status in that process is, you know, essentially

44 they're a non-voting member but they can provide input.

45 But once the Board gets into deliberations, Regional

46 Council Chairs or the State, you know, can ask to be

47 recognized, but it's up to the Board to make that call,

48 just like it's up to you to make the call whether or

49 not to recognize me when I put my hand up here at this

50 meeting.

 

127

 

1 Mr. Chair, thank you.

2

3 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, so the seat

4 still exists and somebody sits in it during Board

5 meetings?

6

7 MR. KRON: That is correct. And I

8 think we've got some State representatives here that

9 have sat in one of those seats there and I don't know

10 if they have anything else to add.

11

12 MR. PAPPAS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

13 George Pappas, Fish and Game.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

16

17 MR. PAPPAS: Normally it's the

18 Commissioner or the Commissioner's designee. This last

19 meeting we had Director Charlie Swanton, who is the

20 director of the Sportfish Division because the

21 Commissioner position, I believe, was vacant at the

22 time.

23

24 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

27

28 MR. BUCK: When I was down at that

29 meeting I spoke with quite a few of the RAC head Chairs

30 and they -- they were talking about ANILCA and

31 according to them the State doesn't completely comply

32 with ANILCA with their policies, so that was my

33 understanding.

34

35 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Tim.

36

37 MR. SMITH: I notice in the MOU in

38 4(12) it does seem to accommodate what we were talking

39 about earlier, about using the moose harvest report to

40 gather information on subsistence users on Federal

41 lands. That seems like that could be done under this

42 MOU.

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I don't know,

45 you're going to have to deal with a bunch of State guys

46 to get a little checkbox on a harvest ticket, despite

47 what the Memorandum -- I guess that's a good point.

48

49 MR. SMITH: They've already agreed to

50 it.

 

128

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I mean if we're going

2 to have an MOU, and we got an MOU and we should all

3 work together, but that's just our view.

4

5 Okay, George.

6

7 MR. PAPPAS: Mr. Chair. Good comment.

8 I just spoke to some folks here during the lunch period

9 and the permit, the actual statewide permitting system

10 is going to be evaluated this spring for potential

11 redesign of the permits, and a recommendation from this

12 RAC could be sent through OSM to ADF&G to work

13 something out or some ideas or recommendations; this

14 would be a good format to voice your opinion and direct

15 it to the State.

16

17 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Would you like to make

20 a motion.

21

22 MR. SMITH: I move that we request that

23 when the State harvest reports are redesigned that they

24 look into putting a checkbox and a line for identifying

25 that the animal was taken under Federal hunting

26 regulations -- subsistence hunting regulations.

27

28 MR. ENINGOWUK: Second the motion.

29

30 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, second. We

31 already discussed this at length, does anybody need to

32 add anything.

33

34

35 (No comments)

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Hearing none

38

39 MR. SEETOT: Question.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Question called. All

42 those in favor of the motion say aye.

43

44 IN UNISON: Aye.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And all those opposed.

47

48 (No opposing votes)

49

50 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, so, Tom, we'd

 

129

 

1 like to see a recommendation from us that review of the

2 permits involve possible checkboxes for Federal hunts

3 since we're in effect using them in rare situations for

4 such.

5

6 Okay, so you need action from us at

7 some level. Do you want an official motion and all

8 that or can we just kind of generally say it looks

9 okay?

10

11 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. It's up to you.

12 I guess we're asking for your perspective and specific

13 comments, if you want to see changes made.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Does anybody

16 have any specific comments to the Memorandum of

17 Understanding? It is pretty important, I'll say, that

18 this thing is in existence. While there's two separate

19 entities, we don't hunt on two separate lands,

20 theoretically, so everybody's got to come together and

21 make things as easy both for the hunter and the manager

22 as possible.

23

24

25 (No comments)

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Hearing nothing else,

28 we're aware of the MOA -- MOU and we're satisfied with

29 what we've seen so far I'll say.

30

31 And, of course, like all this stuff it

32 is somewhat dynamic and in the future if we want to

33 make comments we can do so, right?

34

35 MR. KRON: Yes, Mr. Chair.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Are we on

38 five now, rural determinations, and that's just

39 informational?

40

41 MR. KRON: Yes. Another informational

42 item. The Federal Subsistence Board is going to have a

43 work session on April 6th to discuss rural. Again,

44 we've just completed another decennial census. And the

45 RAC Chairs are invited to this meeting on April 6th.

46 They've decided that it's going to be so long and

47 complex that they need to basically do it face to face,

48 so they're not going to be teleconferencing people if

49 they're unable to make it. And the Federal Subsistence

50 Board is not preparing to make any decisions with

 

130

 

1 regard to the process or regulatory changes until after

2 it's grounded in rural. You know we've got a lot of

3 new Federal Subsistence Board members and people just

4 want to find out about the process and how things work

5 and what we have right now.

6

7 But, again, just for your information

8 and, again, the Board Chairs will be invited to a

9 meeting on April 6th.

10

11 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, thank you, Tom.

14 And then you can move on to No. 6.

15

16 MR. KRON: Okay. Mr. Chair. Executive

17 session policy. And, again, another informational

18 item, just want to let people know what's happened.

19 And this was, again, something that came out of the

20 Secretary of Interior's Review.

21

22 The Federal Subsistence Board is

23 committed to an open and transparent public process.

24 Towards this end an executive session summary of the

25 Board's January 5th, 2011 meeting is included in your

26 Regional Council books on Page 76. They basically were

27 working on a bunch of these same issues we've been

28 talking about at the direction of the Secretary and

29 trying to figure out how to go on those issues but,

30 again, they've committed to do summaries of their

31 meetings when they meet in executive session. And,

32 again, this is a summary of that meeting, and in the

33 future they intend to do a summary and provide it to

34 the Regional Councils so that people know what's

35 happening.

36

37 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, okay, I'm a

40 little confused because locally when we have executive

41 sessions we don't get to find out squat about what

42 happens. But you have a nice little list of apparently

43 the stuff that was discussed. That makes me think it

44 wasn't really an executive session because executive

45 sessions are supposed to be secret or something. Am I

46 -- is my understanding of executive sessions too

47 narrow?

48

49 Tim.

50

 

131

 

1 MR. SMITH: I think you're talking

2 about executive sessions conducted by local entities

3 under the Alaska Public Meetings Act.

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I guess so.

6

7 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I think what the

8 situation is, is that, this is one of my pet-peeves, I

9 think the situation is that the local organizations

10 don't understand the requirements of the Public

11 Meetings Act and they abuse executive sessions quite a

12 bit.

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, I see, okay.

15

16 MR. SMITH: And, you know, executive

17 sessions, it says right in the Act, that executive

18 sessions are not privy -- are not a way to hide things

19 from the public and it lays out very clear guidelines

20 for conducting executive sessions and most

21 organizations around here violate those routinely.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh.

24

25 MR. SMITH: You're not supposed to be

26 able to do things in secret. There are very, very few

27 situations that authorize an executive session under

28 the Alaska law. And we were talking about that last

29 night when Alex was giving us training, is, are there

30 any circumstances where a Regional Advisory Council can

31 use an executive session.

32

33 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, good question, and

34 what was the end result of that discussion?

35

36 (Laughter)

37

38 MR. SMITH: I refer to Alex.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Can I kick everybody

41 out of the room and we'll let

42

43 (Laughter)

44

45 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Members of the

46 Council. Last night we talked about there are some

47 certain times that the RAC might consider executive

48 session and one of the examples that we used last night

49 was if there's concern about a RAC member or a Staff,

50 and there would be other Staff invited and maybe others

 

132

 

1 who are not with the agency or whatever not invited to

2 participate to answer some questions that a RAC may

3 have. That's what we talked about last night a little

4 bit.

5

6 Mr. Chair.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, thanks.

9 Well, good, I'm glad to see that it looks like the

10 Subsistence Board is doing things on the up and up. So

11 next one.

12

13 MR. NICK: Mr. Chair. Before you move

14 on, I wanted to explain something that the RAC members

15 should understand, hopefully, clearly.

16

17 The reason why sometime that might

18 become necessary is because RAC and the Staff are not

19 allowed to go on line and talk about privacy issues,

20 and that's probably one consideration the RAC may have

21 in the future to go into executive session to talk

22 about some privacy issues. Because OSM protects your

23 -- the agency protects your privacy to a certain point

24 so, you know, we keep it that way too, up to now.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Number

27 vii.

28

29 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Tribal

30 consultation. I've got an outline of the issue and

31 process that I need to go through and would refer you

32 to the letter from Chairman Towarak on Page 74 that all

33 of the Council members should have gotten.

34

35 Title VIII of the Alaska National

36 Interest Lands Conservation Act, or ANILCA, provides a

37 foundational role for the 10 Regional Advisory Councils

38 in the development of regulations guiding the taking of

39 fish and wildlife on Federal public lands in Alaska.

40

41 Deference to the Councils ensures that

42 rural residents have a meaningful role in the

43 management of fish and wildlife and subsistence uses as

44 envisioned by Congress. To date because of the

45 foundational role of the Councils in the Federal

46 Program as well as the requirements by statutes that

47 the Board defer to the Council recommendations, the

48 Federal Subsistence Board has not explicitly consulted

49 with tribes during the development of regulations.

50

 

133

 

1 The Administration, by Presidential

2 Order, has underscored the importance of tribal

3 consultation across government. Consistent with the

4 Secretaries of Interior and Agriculture's renewed

5 emphasis on respectful relationships with tribes, the

6 Federal Subsistence Board would like to enhance our

7 government-to-government consultation with tribes. The

8 Federal Subsistence Board is, thus, initiating steps to

9 formally incorporate tribal consultation into the

10 Federal Subsistence Management Program, while

11 maintaining the established role of the Regional

12 Advisory Councils.

13

14 Toward this end, tribes were invited to

15 participate in the January 18th through 21st, 2011

16 Federal Subsistence Board meeting. Invitations were

17 sent to all Federally-recognized tribes in Alaska as

18 well as ANCSA corporations. Invitations were two-fold.

19

20 Tribes were invited to provide comments

21 on fisheries proposals;

22

23 And they were also invited to a meeting

24 on the 21st of January to discuss development of tribal

25 consultation protocols for the overall Federal

26 Subsistence Management Program.

27

28 Each Regional Advisory Council member

29 was also sent a letter signed by the Federal

30 Subsistence Board Chair explaining the Board's intended

31 process and to assure that the Councils -- and to

32 assure the Councils of their continued vital role in

33 the program.

34

35 And, again, a copy of the letter is on

36 Page 74 of your book.

37

38 While the meeting on the 21st was an

39 initial discussion session, the Board's goal is to work

40 with tribes to develop a tribal consultation policy for

41 the Federal Subsistence Management Program. This will

42 need to be consistent with the Department's policies.

43 The meeting on the 21st was generally a listening

44 session. OSM is preparing a summary of the main points

45 raised and that will be made widely available.

46 Development of specific consultation mechanisms will

47 require further meetings between the Federal

48 Subsistence Board and tribes.

49

50 Main themes expressed at the first

 

134

 

1 session included:

2

3 Tribal traditions in the use of fish

4 and wildlife predate Western management systems.

5 Knowledge is passed down through the generations. We

6 need to listen to traditional knowledge.

7

8 The Regional Advisory Councils, with

9 all due respect, are not tribes. There is a necessity

10 to consult meaningful, directfully with tribes.

11

12 The tribes need to be informed of

13 program developments early on. The tribes need to

14 partners in the process. Tribal participation in the

15 Council process needs to be made explicit.

16

17 The current meeting window provides an

18 opportunity for Councils to receive this update on

19 tribal consultation and to provide initial perspectives

20 and feedback.

21

22 And some key points.

23

24 In making this regulatory process, the

25 Federal Board must follow the recommendations of the

26 Regional Advisory Council process unless they are not

27 supported by substantial evidence, violate recognized

28 principles of fish and wildlife conservation or would

29 be detrimental to the satisfaction of subsistence

30 needs. These three aspects are specifically identified

31 in Section .805(c) of ANILCA.

32

33 The Alaska National Interests Land

34 Conservation Act does not provide rights to tribes for

35 the subsistence taking of wildlife, fish and shellfish,

36 however, because tribal members are affected by

37 subsistence fishing, hunting and trapping regulations,

38 the Secretaries, through the Board, will provide

39 Federally-recognized tribes and Alaska Native

40 Corporations an opportunity to consult.

41

42 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

43

44 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

45

46 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Peter.

47

48 MR. BUCK: During that last day of the

49 meeting in Fairbanks [sic], tribal consultation was in

50 process all day long and they should have had

 

135

 

1 documentation of what was said during that tribal

2 consultation. I haven't yet seen it, and I'd like to

3 know if they're going to be made available.

4

5 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. Mr. Buck. Yes,

6 the summary isn't finished yet. Again, Tina, was there

7 with her son transcribing the meeting, the minutes from

8 the meeting will be available word for word, and they

9 are putting together a summary, but my understanding is

10 that it is not complete yet, but, again, it will be

11 made available.

12

13 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

14

15 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Do you need anything

16 from us?

17

18 MR. KRON: It's up to you if you would

19 like to make additional comments, you're more than

20 welcome to do so.

21

22 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Does anybody want to

25 add anything? Let's see so that meeting was in January

26 -- I thought you went to the meeting in January -- you

27 ended up going?

28

29 MR. BUCK: Yeah.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay, and that was

32 in Anchorage or Fairbanks?

33

34 MR. BUCK: Anchorage.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, okay.

37

38 MR. KEYES: I thought someone said you

39 went to it.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I had the option to

42 go, I declined because I couldn't get away from work

43 and so I think you had the next option, didn't you?

44

45 MR. ENINGOWUK: No, chain of command,

46 it went to Peter.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh.

49

50 MR. ENINGOWUK: They called me, I

 

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1 called

2

3 (Laughter)

4

5 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Well, if

6 that's -- well, we don't need to say anything else,

7 we'll have chances to work on this in the future, I

8 suppose.

9

10 Other.

11

12 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. I'm not aware of

13 any other. We could move on to Migratory Birds under

14 the Fish and Wildlife Service if you'd like, Page 94.

15

16 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Oh, well, we've got

17 three and four, summary of January 5th Board Executive

18 Summary -- you already did that?

19

20 MR. KRON: Yes.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Salmon bycatch

23 in the groundfish fisheries, I know that -- oh, you

24 wanted something on that but you wanted tonight to

25 prepare it.

26

27 MR. SMITH: Yes. But I guess we

28 can

29

30 REPORTER: Tim. Tim.

31

32 MR. SMITH: it would be fine to

33 talk to

34

35 REPORTER: Tim, your mic, please.

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Turn your mic on.

38

39 REPORTER: Thanks.

40

41 MR. SMITH: I don't have any objection

42 to going through these written briefings tonight, but

43 what I'd like to ask the Council to do is tomorrow is

44 write a letter expressing the Council's wishes for the

45 North Pacific Fisheries Management Council action on

46 limiting chum salmon bycatch in the trawl fisheries as

47 I understand was done with the king salmon bycatch

48 fisheries two years ago.

49

50 But it's up to you, Mr. Chairman, if

 

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1 you want to do the written briefings now or we can save

2 it for tomorrow.

3

4 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, the slight

5 possibility of finishing this meeting today is looming

6 on the horizon, so I want to ask my fellow members

7 here, would you like to see this meeting concluded

8 today or

9

10 MR. KEYES: I would like to go over

11 Tim's

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: we can -- if we

14 work tomorrow we can put a little more detail into a

15 couple items.

16

17 MR. KEYES: Yes.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

20

21 MR. KEYES: Yes, tomorrow.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You want tomorrow.

24

25 (Council nods affirmatively)

26

27 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Then we

28 will save -- you will have your chance to come up with

29 something tonight in writing that we can all look at

30 and work on tomorrow, so, now, yes, we can move on to

31 B, Migratory Birds Co-Management, Tom, go ahead.

32

33 MR. KRON: Mr. Chair. If you wanted I

34 could quickly go through the written briefings today on

35 the chum and chinook bycatch issue just for

36

37 CHAIRMAN QUINN: No.

38

39 MR. KRON: No.

40

41 CHAIRMAN QUINN: No.

42

43 MR. KRON: Okay.

44

45 MR. KEYES: We'll do that tomorrow.

46

47 MR. SMITH: We'll do that tomorrow.

48

49 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, we'll do that

50 tomorrow.

 

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1 MR. KEYES: No shortcuts.

2

3 MR. KRON: Okay, give me a minute.

4

5 (Laughter)

6

7 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, potentially some

8 people might not have to be here tomorrow depending on

9 what we get done now.

10

11 MR. KRON: Right.

12

13 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, so, Mr.

14 Chairman, the duck stamp issue.

15

16 The Migratory Bird Program within the

17 US Fish and Wildlife Service has provided several

18 informational items. They can be found in the RAC

19 books starting on Page 94. And, again, the Migratory

20 Bird Co-Management Council list is on Page 95.

21

22 The briefing document clearly outlines

23 the duck stamps, duck stamps are required, and that has

24 not changed. Some groups have raised an issue with

25 that requirement but the regulation has not changed.

26

27 And that's all I've got to say on that.

28

29 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

30

31 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Any comments.

32

33 MR. BUCK: Does Sandy have a comment on

34 it.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sandy.

37

38 MS. TAHBONE: Sandy Tahbone with

39 Kawerak. I'm also the representative for Kawerak who

40 is a partner to the Alaska Migratory Bird Co-Management

41 Council.

42

43 And the latest on that was last

44 Congress, both Senator Murkowski and Begich did submit

45 a bill but unfortunately with the Horizon issue, there

46 was no action, or it didn't move at all and we have yet

47 to hear what they're going to be submitting this

48 session so we will keep you informed, but it continues

49 to be a hardship on many of our people.

50

 

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1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Be more specific,

2 what's the hardship, or what did the bill said?

3

4 MS. TAHBONE: Well, what the bill was

5 trying to do was trying to provide for our harvesters

6 not to have to purchase a duck stamp, was basically the

7 intent.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

10

11 MR. KEYES: Where it says all hunters

12 age 16 and over must possess -- must have in possession

13 a Federal duck stamp; why does it include -- why it

14 doesn't say anything about 65 and older, we should

15 leave those elders alone and not even let them even

16 carry a duck stamp because they've been on this world

17 longer than we have and they got more knowledge than

18 the 16 year olds.

19

20 MS. TAHBONE: Mr. Chairman.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sandy, go ahead.

23

24 MS. TAHBONE: Tony, you know,

25 unfortunately the Alaska Migratory Bird Co-Management

26 Council does not -- we don't set these regulations. It

27 has to take an Act of Congress to change it. If it was

28 up to the Co-Management Council, we would have dealt

29 with this years ago. So this is an issue, both at the

30 State -- you know there's requirements also for State

31 hunting -- hunting under the State sporthunt

32 regulations in the falltime. We deal -- right now we

33 deal with just the spring harvest regulations. We just

34 propose them to the Service Regulation Committee, we

35 don't set the regulations, we just propose them within

36 the frameworks of our Co-Management body.

37

38 So we, you know, like I said it's going

39 to take an Act of Congress to take care of this.

40

41 MR. KEYES: How would we be able to do

42 away with duck stamps because first of all there's

43 places that you can purchase them and there's places

44 that you can't get them.

45

46 I've heard people having troubles

47 trying to find duck stamps in various hunting area

48 places where they want to hunt and they're pretty much

49 -- to tell you the truth they're pretty much -- pretty

50 angry about having to possess a duck stamp just to go

 

140

 

1 get one or two ducks to place on their supper table

2 and, you know, I heard elders from time and time when

3 this started, I'm very, very, very unhappy.

4

5 MS. TAHBONE: Yeah, that's one of the

6 issues, you know, that's been raised in part of our

7 reasoning for trying to push it forward because not

8 only does it affect the subsistence harvester for the

9 birds itself, but it also places a burden on the

10 families that harvest the eggs. So, you know, it's

11 just one of the Federal requirements and fortunately we

12 haven't, in our region, not that I'm aware of, no one

13 has been cited for not having a duck stamp.

14

15 The US Fish and Wildlife Service, they

16 did have a three year phase in, as they were calling

17 it, where the first year they would just do public

18 education outreach regarding the requirement. Of

19 course, you know, we see little to no education and

20 public outreach occur in our region, as well as other

21 regions. And then the second year was they would just

22 provide a verbal warning, if you will. And then the

23 third year, which was last season they were supposed to

24 start citing people. But they kind of held back a

25 little bit. It is within the Regional Director's

26 purview to kind of set the law enforcement action

27 that's going to be taken, so there was no citations

28 last year; I'm not sure what will take place this next

29 spring. But they were kind of like holding back to see

30 what was going to happen with the bill that was

31 introduced.

32

33 MR. KEYES: Well, instead of having to

34 wait and wait and wait and wait and having people all

35 confused and raising eyebrows on this, it's going to

36 get worse, year to year, as our teenagers are going out

37 hunting more every year and they're starting to learn

38 the collection of the birds, but the thing is they

39 don't know the word, duck stamp. Of course a youngster

40 like that would get mad if he has to go and purchase a

41 duck stamp. It's kind of like putting a 16 year old

42 and a 65 year old together and having competition

43 between them two, none of them is going to win.

44

45 MR. SMITH: Mr. Chairman.

46

47 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

48

49 MR. SMITH: Which people would be

50 excluded under the proposed bill from buying a duck

 

141

 

1 stamp, how would the exclusions work?

2

3 MS. TAHBONE: The way the protocols

4 that we work under and the regulations that we work

5 under, all residents, there's several excluded areas,

6 but all residents fall under the indigenous definition

7 because under the protocols the indigenous people are

8 the ones that are eligible, it was to provide for a

9 legalized spring hunt. So it's everyone that's

10 eligible to harvest under the regulations would be - 

11 would not be -- would not have to purchase a duck

12 stamp. This would be for the spring -- the

13 spring/summer hunt.

14

15 MR. SMITH: But if you wanted to hunt

16 in the fall you'd still have to have one?

17

18 MS. TAHBONE: Yeah, there is no - 

19 there currently is no -- there are no regulations for a

20 subsistence fall migratory bird hunt. Currently people

21 harvest birds for subsistence under the sportshunt

22 regulations.

23

24 MR. SMITH: So I'm just thinking,

25 realistically, that wouldn't really exclude very many

26 people, would it, are there a lot of people who only

27 hunt in the spring?

28

29 MS. TAHBONE: Well, right now we're

30 just trying to deal with that, we'll go to the next

31 level. So like I said it's a whole new -- we're

32 entering a whole new -- we're looking at what was

33 submitted and trying to get some strategy to get this

34 passed first.

35

36 It's -- you know -- and it's all the

37 processes, all the different regulations that we have

38 to comply with to put food on the table, it's just

39 another regulation that we have to deal with if we want

40 to be legal. And as you know many of our people, you

41 know, there is very limited dollars that's put into

42 education outreach, people are just not aware often

43 times that they're breaking the law. And sometimes,

44 you know, people, they have to choose between

45 purchasing a duck stamp or being able to purchase

46 either ammunition or putting gas in whatever they're

47 using to go out there and put the food on the table so,

48 you know, those are really hard decisions that are our

49 people are being faced with. So, you know, a lot of

50 times, you know, they have to make the choice, you

 

142

 

1 know, they're going to have to put gas in their machine

2 in order to go out and harvest and so they, you know,

3 they're not going to purchase a license or a duck

4 stamp.

5

6 MR. KEYES: Okay, something just

7 occurred to me. For those who are not holding cash in

8 a bank or in their house or in their wallets and

9 they're only collecting food stamps, food stamps, under

10 that category would food stamps, tents, ammunition and

11 gas could be bought, could there be in any way that we

12 could -- that a duck stamp could be purchased through

13 that entity?

14

15 MS. TAHBONE: There's all kinds of

16 ideas out there. There were even ideas of our Co 

17 Management Council purchasing duck stamps, anyways, I

18 don't want to get into -- I'd be happy to have a

19 conversation with you, I'd be happy to bring your

20 thoughts forward. Like I said we're still trying to

21 move this issue forward and as it gets introduced

22 there's still room for amendment but it's really

23 important that with -- at Wales, your representative

24 that sits on the Bering Straits Norton Sound Migratory

25 Bird Council, which is our regional Co-Management

26 Council, is Clyde Auksharok (ph), so he's the

27 individual that you could move your community's

28 thoughts and concerns and recommendations forward.

29

30 MR. KEYES: Yeah, I brought up this

31 idea because, you know, I've seen in the majority of

32 the villages during the wintertime, people are more

33 relying on food stamps instead of cash while it's given

34 through government, and, you know, all the way up

35 towards springtime. I wouldn't see no -- you know I

36 would like to see something that can be, you know,

37 purchased with -- if they are in need have them

38 purchase it with their food stamp deal, card, whatever.

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, thanks, Sandy.

41

42 All right, so I guess we can move on to

43 the Park Service.

44

45 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Council

46 members. Ken Adkisson, National Park Service. I'll

47 make this really quick. You've already been provided a

48 number of handout materials, I'll briefly just touch on

49 those.

50

 

143

 

1 One is a series of what we call

2 resource briefs produced by the Arctic Network

3 Inventorying and Monitoring Program for the Park

4 Service. And as you look through those you'll see some

5 of them are very specific to species like caribou and

6 dall sheep, others are much more broad in their

7 application, weather, climate change, terrestrial,

8 vegetation, large lake communities and ecosystems, and

9 finally through coastal erosion and contaminant work.

10 Those are only a few of the vital signs that we're

11 actually involved in and monitoring and protocols are

12 currently being developed for a number of others

13 including muskoxen and brown bear.

14

15 You'll find on there, links, too, that

16 you can go to, web links, to go to the website and find

17 a lot of the technical papers and the other things

18 that, you know, provide some of the resources

19 information that these are developed from.

20

21 The other one -- one of your other

22 handouts is a newsletter provided by the Arctic Network

23 and basically it covers more current activities and

24 highlights but there's also some other interesting

25 pieces of information in there related to a number of

26 the vital signs.

27

28 And then, finally, one of your other

29 handouts is more specific to Bering Land Bridge and

30 covers last years and proposed current field projects

31 for the Bering Land Bridge National Preserve, which

32 covers a wide range of activities from natural

33 resources, some of which are Park Service sponsored,

34 others which are being conducted by private

35 investigators or universities and those kind of folks.

36 And you'll find web links in there, too, that you can

37 go to.

38

39 The things that I would stress about

40 some of that is really probably three or four main

41 points.

42

43 When it comes to like the Arctic

44 Network and Inventorying Monitoring Program, when you

45 look through some of those, I think you'll find that

46 collaboration is the key, and that for carrying and

47 conducting out those vital sign monitoring we're ever

48 searching ways to do it more efficiently and to partner

49 with other groups. So, for example, the dall sheep

50 really started out largely with Northwest Alaska, was

 

144

 

1 moved into the Brooks Range and has now moved down to

2 cover Denali, and as far south as Wrangell-St. Elias.

3

4 The climate and weather station

5 monitoring projects have integrated a number of things

6 and protocols developed by other network units in the

7 Inventorying and Monitoring Program, so standardization

8 is a feature.

9

10 The other thing about the Inventorying

11 and Monitoring Program is, is that, it's really

12 dedicated to developing consistent through protocols

13 long-term data sets.

14

15 And then one of the final things about

16 it, is, data management and data storage so that the

17 material will easily retrievable and easy to use.

18

19 In kind of summary to some of that I

20 would say that a lot of our projects are carried out

21 collaboratively with organizations like the Alaska

22 Department of Fish and Game, US Fish and Wildlife

23 Service. In many cases we'll work on moose, say,

24 census project, and we're really not the lead agency,

25 we simply contribute funds, staff and aircraft support

26 to do it. And usually whoever the lead organization is

27 would be the one that produces the -- assimilates the

28 data, organizes it and produces reports and stuff from

29 it. In a few other cases we may well be the lead

30 organization and basically the data set is ours. And,

31 you know, then how we share that and how we disseminate

32 that information is pretty much up to us.

33

34 But you'll find a wide variety of

35 projects in there and just some of the current things

36 that we're engaged in or will be engaged in shortly

37 with shortly wildlife; we'll be working with ADF&G to

38 complete some muskox protocol work involving the

39 distant sampling method that ADF&G mentioned to you

40 earlier. For us, that's a very important shift from

41 the way that we had been doing muskoxen, which is the

42 minimum count method, and it's absolutely necessary in

43 this time of really fiscal constraints that we find

44 better and smarter ways to work. And in the case of

45 the muskoxen, as they expand their range and there's

46 areas that we need to add to our survey area, there's

47 no way we can continue to continue using something like

48 the minimum count method, which is so, you know,

49 intensive and cost demanding of us, and we've got to

50 find ways to do things cheaper, be able to cover more

 

145

 

1 area and probably as importantly, as ADF&G's already

2 mentioned to you, the way to develop is a good rigorous

3 statistical based, you know, estimate where we've got

4 the confidence limits that we can express so we're

5 working on that and trying to finish up that protocol

6 and that will involve working with ADF&G, both in the

7 Kotzebue area and the Nome office and completing some

8 things in the northern Seward Peninsula and in Unit 23.

9

10 And then we'll be working with ADF&G on

11 the moose census for 22E. And then with ADF&G and the

12 US Fish and Wildlife Service in some moose work in the

13 Selawik Wildlife Refuge. And then we'll also be

14 finishing up and providing logistic support to the

15 three year muskoxen project, which you've been exposed

16 to in other presentations. And this will be the last

17 year for field work on that project, and then a year or

18 so worth of, you know, data analysis and final report

19 write ups.

20

21 MR. BUCK: Mr. Chair.

22

23 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead.

24

25 MR. BUCK: I'd like to ask a question

26 of Ken. I look at all these things you handed out, it

27 looks pretty positive and everything. I was wondering

28 if you could do a study on bears or beavers and give us

29 a report on that?

30

31 MR. ADKISSON: Yes, Mr. Buck, through

32 the Chair. Bears is an interesting one. And all I can

33 tell you right now is that we are struggling to

34 complete a bear monitoring protocol and we've got some

35 problems with getting that out the door. And if you'll

36 notice in the newsletter you'll see that they actually

37 did a bear survey for Gates of the Arctic this last

38 year and that's supposedly the last field work that's

39 going to be actually done and that data will be put

40 with the other data from several other bear surveys

41 that we, and others have participated in to do and the

42 protocol will be developed from that. So hopefully

43 once that's done and the protocol's out the door and

44 people buy off on it, it'll give us a relatively less

45 expensive and way that we can actually perhaps more

46 frequently count bears and get you some of that

47 information you're asking.

48

49 Beavers is kind of a mixed bag. I

50 think it's been brought up a number of times in various

 

146

 

1 kind of context, especially related to fisheries and I

2 think, you know, OSM and Fisheries Information Service

3 can attest to that from the meetings that they go to

4 and people, you know, are concerned about it, and I

5 think beavers are sort of a mixed bag. You know they

6 benefit some species of fish, they're detrimental to

7 other species of fish and it depends on what your

8 preferences are. But, you know, there's not much doubt

9 that, you know, beavers are expanding in numbers and

10 perhaps range and probably as a result of climate

11 change and ecological changes that are going on on the

12 Seward Peninsula, so, you know, much beyond that I

13 don't know. We don't have any plans to really get in

14 and study beaver per se. But we have some interesting

15 challenges like at Serpentine Hot Springs where we've

16 got a number of beaver lodges that are causing some

17 issues for us.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Are you ready to post

20 a bounty?

21

22 (Laughter)

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: I'm interested.

25

26 (Laughter)

27

28 MR. ADKISSON: I don't know, why don't

29 you come to see me maybe at a break of something

30

31 (Laughter)

32

33 MR. ADKISSON: and hopefully we

34 can talk about legitimate

35

36 (Laughter)

37

38 MR. ADKISSON: you know, what's

39 legitimate trapping and stuff.

40

41 (Laughter)

42

43 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sandy, I have a

44 question for you. In the past you have spoken on some

45 study or program to possibly change the regulations

46 within Parks and Preserves on picking up and use of

47 things like antlers and various items and what has

48 happened with that?

49

50 MR. RABINOWITCH: That's a good

 

147

 

1 question and I've actually got a pretty fresh answer

2 for you.

3

4 Over about the past 12 months, six

5 months, we haven't done much work on the project

6 because of the workload on the Federal Subsistence

7 Board, but the past six months we had been working

8 steadily on it. We have a new newsletter, which I

9 don't have copies of, we just finished about a week ago

10 and it sort of updates the status and I'll tell you

11 what that is real succinctly.

12

13 The Park Service has four alternatives

14 that we finally kind of thrashed out through a lot of

15 scoping with the NPS Subsistence Resource Commissions.

16 There's not one in your region. There is one over in

17 Cape Kruzenstern, for example, Kobuk Valley, a little

18 further away, but there's none in this region because

19 they're only associated with either Parks or Monuments,

20 but not Preserves like Bering Land Bridge. We're

21 actively writing the document, it's an environmental

22 assessment, you've all heard about EIS', it's kind of a

23 big document, environmental assessment's a little

24 smaller and that's what we're writing. We hope to have

25 that out on the street at some point this summer,

26 probably late summer and then have at least about a 90

27 day review period, which would run all the way through

28 the end of the fall meeting of this group, okay, and

29 the Subsistence SRCs -- I mean the NPS SRCs. So that's

30 the goal, the document out in the fall with a long

31 review period.

32

33 And unless something changes on me,

34 there'll be four alternatives.

35

36 One's the status quo, which is you

37 can't pick those things up, as you're aware.

38

39 And then there are three derivations of

40 being able to pick up things, make handicrafts and use

41 them.

42

43 And for those of you who aren't

44 familiar or new on the Council, in a nutshell, the Park

45 Service had two different requests to change our

46 regulations, which currently do not allow people to

47 pick up things like horns or antlers that are either

48 naturally shed or discarded by a hunter, and the

49 requests were to change the regulations so you could do

50 that.

 

148

 

1 So that's -- I mean I'm oversimplifying

2 a little bit, but that's what we're looking into.

3

4 We're actually covering horns, antlers,

5 bones and plants; that's kind of the full span of what

6 we're looking into.

7

8 And pretty much those activities aren't

9 allowed, we're looking into changing the regs to see if

10 we can support allowing those, and as I say, we'll have

11 three different options on the yes part, one option on

12 the leave it as is on the no part. So that's where

13 we're going in short.

14

15 I'll stop and see if you have

16 questions.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You mentioned plants.

19

20 MR. RABINOWITCH: Uh-huh.

21

22 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Would that forbid the

23 selling of berries picked on Park Service lands?

24

25 MR. RABINOWITCH: You ask a really good

26 question. The plant part is a little complicated

27 because the existing Park Service regulations actually

28 allow collection of plant materials right now, it's

29 where the plants are different than the horns and

30 antlers, okay. So -- and I would have to look at the

31 specific regulations, you know, so I don't want to say

32 something that's incorrect, but, generally speaking,

33 subsistence users can collect plant materials for their

34 own use right now, that's okay.

35

36 CHAIRMAN QUINN: But can you sell it?

37

38 MR. RABINOWITCH: It's the selling,

39 exactly. So if you want to turn it into a handicraft

40 and sell it, which is what the

41

42 (Laughter)

43

44 MR. RABINOWITCH: law -- which is

45 what the law talks about

46

47 (Laughter)

48

49 MR. RABINOWITCH: the statute in

50 ANILCA, and that's where you've always got to go back

 

149

 

1 to, what does the law provide, okay, so it's the

2 selling part that's not allowed right now. With horns

3 and antlers the collecting's not allowed, the selling's

4 not allowed. With plants, the collecting is allowed,

5 the selling is not allowed.

6

7 MR. KEYES: Traditional use of all

8 dropped antlers, skulls, tusks, anything that is

9 dropped or, you know, left behind by a hunter, there is

10 always eventually someone out there to collect

11 something for their artistical use, which is a

12 traditional part of their life. It has been ongoing

13 since our ancestors were here before us, and now we're

14 laying down the rule that we have to fill out a piece

15 of paper to pick up a piece of skull, a piece of ivory

16 and this was -- to us it's free, it's a given - 

17 natural given item to us.

18

19 Now that you mention plants, too, we

20 have edible plants, berries, greens, now, if we pick

21 those, you know, there is some bartering behind these

22 items regardless if rules are put in place for them. I

23 never heard of an elder saying I won't give you this, I

24 won't give you that, they're always pretty much of

25 saying, okay, I'm going to pick this because I want to

26 have it for the winter, a majority of our elders now

27 still pick greens, berries, use them for ceremonial

28 applications, birthdays and, you know, whatever. I

29 hate to see an elderly folk, you know, walk out on the

30 tundra and do all this picking and then turnaround and

31 see a White individual there with a piece of paper and

32 say, hey, you have to put that back; this Native

33 person's going to say, no, this was in my traditional

34 use for centuries and centuries and centuries of years

35 passed down from our generation to your generation.

36

37 It's saddening to see something

38 happening like that to our indigenous people. I take

39 it as a wrong step to do, you know, something like

40 that, after being -- it's out there, it's free, it's

41 for us to use. You know, I don't see a White -- I

42 don't see a Native person going to the store and say, I

43 got to buy these berries because they're on sale, but

44 having to see an elderly -- elderly folk, old lady

45 picking their berries, which they do every year,

46 believe me they do it every year, I hate to see that

47 person turn around and a White man standing there with

48 a piece of paper, you know, it tears the heart of an

49 individual and it will hurt the community. You hurt

50 one person, one person is connected to the whole

 

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1 community and to the other villages, everybody got

2 relations in different places.

3

4 I'm not in for that, period.

5

6 Thank you.

7

8 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So have your

9 alternatives addressed, you know, sale of these items

10 beyond handicrafts? Sale of berries. Sale of horns

11 and stuff that's picked up, you know, there are markets

12 for these things, people in these regions do need

13 sources of income, you know, I've spoken of this before

14 to you.

15

16 MR. RABINOWITCH: Uh-huh.

17

18 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And you guys were just

19 looking at handicrafts, but there are other options

20 available for people to earn money off of these items.

21 What are the alternatives going to say, do you know?

22

23 MR. RABINOWITCH: Well, I can't tell

24 you ultimately what it will all say. We are -- let me

25 try to quickly reframe this again.

26

27 And, first, one thing, you know,

28 Anthony, what you just said I think I understand what

29 you say very well, I think you've said it extremely

30 from your heart and I think -- I mean I can say I think

31 I get what you're talking about. In terms -- and on

32 NPS lands right now, understand that in terms of people

33 gathering things and using them, as you've described, I

34 believe that's all fine. I don't believe there's any

35 problem at all. So what we're talking about in this

36 document would be if somebody wanted to sell those

37 things, okay, so that's the part that we're looking at,

38 and on a piece of paper, technically that's not okay.

39

40 I think we also recognize, because we

41 have a lot of people in the Park Service that have been

42 here a long time, I think we also recognize that

43 everything you've just said is completely true and

44 accurate, completely, no disagreement. The other

45 little historical fact is, and I'll come back to your

46 point here, Mike, is that the regulations that the Park

47 Service now has were basically written in 1981, or they

48 went on the books in 1981, they were probably written

49 in about 1980 and 1981, so they've been on the books

50 for a long time. So we've had these requests to make

 

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1 modifications, liberalize these things and we're

2 seriously looking into it and trying to be responsive.

3

4 Mike, back to your point. The edges of

5 what we're looking at are naturally shed or discarded

6 horns and antlers, bones from any critters and plant

7 materials. So there's first the collecting part of it,

8 then there's the making and selling of handicrafts part

9 of it. One of the counter balances that we have in

10 ANILCA is direction to not rise to a level of what's

11 referred to as a significant commercial enterprise.

12 You've probably heard those words and that phrase

13 before. And you probably also know that those words

14 don't have a -- they're not defined in a regulation, so

15 if you ask me what does significant mean and so on, I

16 can tell you I can just look in a dictionary just like

17 you can and that's what I would tell you I believe the

18 answer is. So those are the counter balances of what

19 we're trying to do.

20

21 We're not getting into food stuff, so

22 if like somebody wanted to pick hundreds and hundreds

23 of pounds of blueberries or something and sell them,

24 that's not what we're looking into.

25

26 Commercial enterprises generally are

27 prohibited -- well, I'm not going to say this right,

28 and maybe, I don't know, Jeanette, if I don't get this

29 right help me out, but to engage in a commercial

30 enterprise in an NPS area, you essentially have to get

31 a permit to do that. Am I on track with that, an

32 accurate way to say that.

33

34 MS. POMRENKE: Commercial use

35 authorization.

36

37 MR. RABINOWITCH: Okay, commercial use

38 authorization.

39

40 So -- well, maybe I should stop there

41 and see if that answered or not.

42

43 (Laughter)

44

45 MR. RABINOWITCH: And if not then come

46 at me some more and I'll try some more.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, you said all the

49 picking stuff was okay but they can't sell, well,

50 anybody who's lived here long enough knows that there

 

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1 is some sale going on and it's certainly not a problem

2 so efforts need to be made by all of you people to

3 remove the roadblocks to the people that live here to

4 use the same resources they've been using since your

5 little studies here show they've been using them and

6 not just come up with little things like, you know,

7 letting us sell a few things we make. There's - 

8 everybody's in need in this region of a little more

9 economic activity and, you know, I hope you'll observe

10 that and work to increase economic activity out here

11 within the bounds of what the system can support.

12

13 You know, you say you can't be a

14 commercial blueberry picker and seller, well, what's

15 commercial? So there needs to be an effort to define

16 that.

17

18 Both the State and Federal regs, I

19 believe, say something about customary barter and

20 trade.

21

22 MR. RABINOWITCH: Yes.

23

24 CHAIRMAN QUINN: And some of those regs

25 include trade for cash at some level. I don't know if

26 both entities allow that or just one, but there has

27 been -- and there's been figures tossed out, how much

28 can you trade for cash?

29

30 MR. RABINOWITCH: Right.

31

32 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So when you say that

33 this process has been going on, it shouldn't be just a

34 small little thing, it should be something that makes a

35 significant difference in the lives of the people that

36 live out here.

37

38 MR. RABINOWITCH: I could add that so

39 far in our discussions, this is no guarantee of the

40 future here, but so far in our discussions we've not

41 discussed any kind of dollar limits. We just

42 haven't

43

44 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Sure.

45

46 MR. RABINOWITCH: discussed that

47 as a, you know, as something that we feel like we need

48 to bump up against.

49

50 Yeah, I'll just leave it at that.

 

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1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Tim.

2

3 MR. SMITH: My question is a current

4 situation, is it allowed to pick up antlers and bones

5 for personal use?

6

7 MR. RABINOWITCH: No. In an NPS area,

8 no, not currently.

9

10 MR. SMITH: Oh, that's not widely

11 understood.

12

13 MR. RABINOWITCH: I would agree with

14 you.

15

16 MR. SMITH: Yeah.

17

18 MR. RABINOWITCH: And I completely

19 believe that. I mean I completely believe that around

20 the whole state.

21

22 MR. SMITH: Yeah.

23

24 MR. RABINOWITCH: I don't think it's

25 unique just to this region.

26

27 MR. SMITH: This is the first time I'd

28 heard of it and, you know, I never would have guessed.

29

30 MR. RABINOWITCH: Right. And,

31 actually, I've heard people say exactly those same

32 words. And, yeah, I mean, again, some of us have been

33 around and, yeah, I agree with you.

34

35 MR. SMITH: It's much better to learn

36 these things in a meeting like this than from an

37 enforcement officer though.

38

39 (Laughter)

40

41 MR. RABINOWITCH: Yeah.

42

43 (Laughter)

44

45 MR. RABINOWITCH: I mean, you know, I

46 could just add maybe a little bit and see if I can get

47 a smile on anybody's face, but it does seem like one of

48 the ironies is if you go out and you hunt, you know,

49 under the Federal regs that we're all sitting here

50 talking about, then any horns or antlers attached to

 

154

 

1 something that you just shot, it's yours. But

2 technically on NPS land if you were to see, I don't

3 know, a moose antler, or a caribou antler or something

4 laying there and you picked it up, then we'd say, unh 

5 unh. So, believe me, I understand the irony of that.

6 But that it is the way it is in our regs at the current

7 time.

8

9 MR. SMITH: Do you have a projection on

10 how soon this is going to be addressed and whether or

11 not you're going to change that because I mean it

12 really isn't good to have people violating without

13 knowing they're violating?

14

15 MR. RABINOWITCH: Right. Again, I

16 repeat, our current goal is to get this document out in

17 the summertime so sort of August through about end of

18 October would be a comment period, that's our current

19 goal.

20

21 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, let me stop here

22 for s second. With the time being what it is, I'm

23 going to have Mr. Sparks just do his bit on BLM and

24 that will probably be the end of the meeting. So if

25 you State guys want to leave, I won't need you today

26 but I do want to apologize for you sitting here for so

27 long. If I had a little more forethought maybe I would

28 have seen this coming, but I didn't.

29

30 Actually, Tom, I'm not -- you can sit

31 down but I will ask one more question of the Park

32 Service, I just wanted to let the State guys know that

33 they're going to be first thing in the morning, I'm not

34 going to get to you today.

35

36 MR. KEYES: We're waiting.

37

38 (Laughter)

39

40 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, I'm in charge so

41 you're waiting until I

42

43 MR. SMITH: Can I say one more thing?

44

45 CHAIRMAN QUINN: You bet.

46

47 MR. SMITH: You know what you brought

48 up a really interesting subject about customary trade

49 and that was a big issue for the Federal Subsistence

50 Board at the meeting that Peter and I were at. They're

 

155

 

1 going to be setting some numbers and we might want to

2 get involved in that. In my opinion the numbers

3 they're talking about are awfully low, you know, like

4 $750 a year. And, you know, they're talking about

5 things like, you know, dry fish and things like that.

6 There's a lot of people in this area that sell

7 subsistence caught dry fish and I really think we need

8 to be involved in the discussions because it'll make

9 things illegal that are being done fairly commonly now.

10

11 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right. Jeanette,

12 I kind of got a question for you, maybe Ken will help

13 you with it. You're the superintendent, right?

14

15 MS. POMRENKE: Yes.

16

17 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. So at our last

18 meeting I quizzed you about commercial use

19 authorizations, guide concessions and stuff. I pointed

20 out that your Preserve is the only one in the state

21 that does not have any guide concessions and you said

22 that that was being worked on. What is being done so

23 far?

24

25 MS. POMRENKE: It still is being worked

26 on. The Park is waiting for a budget basically after

27 March 1st to find out if we're going to receive money

28 to do an environmental assessment for big game guiding

29 commercial use authorization, to being those again.

30 Because the Park has not big game guiding since the

31 mid- to late '80s, it's been a long period of time. We

32 also have documented in the early '90s when the Park

33 went out to do public meetings, that certain villages

34 were adamantly opposed to big game guiding at that

35 time. Now, those opinions have changed. And so now

36 we're actively seeking funding for an environmental

37 assessment. And we'll go through the public process of

38 getting comment and everything for that. But we're

39 waiting to see if we've received those dollars yet.

40

41 So that's about it. We've had a pre 

42 meeting in Shishmaref. We've talked to some people

43 there. We can have our meetings. It's just to write

44 an environmental assessment with our small staff,

45 without funding, it would take us a very long time to

46 do that.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: So at one time in the

49 past there was a guide concession on the Preserve?

50

 

156

 

1 MS. POMRENKE: I think there were two,

2 maybe.

3

4 MR. ADKISSON: It would have been early

5 in

6

7 MS. POMRENKE: It would have been in

8 the infancy of the Preserve.

9

10 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Ken.

11

12 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Ken

13 Adkisson. I don't remember any really active ones when

14 I first got here in the mid-80s.

15

16 MS. POMRENKE: So there's no record of

17 active guiding even back then.

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Have the other

20 Preserves in the state done EIS' before they allowed

21 guiding concessions?

22

23 MS. POMRENKE: This is an environmental

24 assessment, it's not an environmental impact statement.

25

26 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay.

27

28 MS. POMRENKE: So the other Preserves

29 in the state have had them and throughout Bering Land

30 Bridge's history they just stopped, there was no

31 interest in them for a very long time. And when we

32 consulted with the tribes in the villages they said,

33 no, they did not want guided sporthunting in the

34 Preserve so we acquiesced to village needs. And we've

35 only had a couple requests over -- since I've been here

36 the last couple years even to hurry our process up, to

37 get it going. So we're trying.

38

39 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. I guess that's

40 as much of an answer as we can ask for.

41

42 MR. ADKISSON: Mr. Chair. Ken

43 Adkisson, again. Yeah, a lot of the Preserve units had

44 fairly active guiding activities going on for, you

45 know, a very long time, like the Noatak, for example,

46 and basically they just sort of grandfathered that in

47 and the last time the Noatak National Preserve went to

48 really redo its concession contract program for

49 guiding, we actually just sort of squeaked by, and,

50 again, it was on the basis of just no significant

 

157

 

1 changes were being made and it was just sort of being

2 grandfathered in. If things were to change

3 differently, that there were substantial or significant

4 changes to the program, like an expansion or new areas

5 within the Preserve might be brought under it or

6 something like that, very likely that Park -- or Park

7 Unit would wind up having to do an EA.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right, thank you.

10 Okay, Mr. Sparks, we'll let you go here and then

11 that'll be the end of our meeting for today.

12

13 MR. SPARKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll

14 make it short. Good to see Mr. Smith here, new member.

15 Congratulations by the way.

16

17 MR. SMITH: Thank you.

18

19 MR. SPARKS: Just want to mention a few

20 things from last fall's report that I gave. Some of

21 the village corporations we've had some success on the

22 Koyuk Native Corporation, we're about done with their

23 entitlement, we do have one section we still need to

24 transfer to them.

25

26 Unalakleet and Shaktoolik have kind of

27 taken a step back now. We have some issues with

28 Unalakleet, with some of the military withdrawals. And

29 Shaktoolik, we have some issues with some of the

30 unpatented Federal mining claims still. But we're

31 making progress with Council and Sitnasauk and hope to

32 move those two villages forward this year.

33

34 We're going to be active in Unalakleet

35 at the weir this summer. We have a new fish biologist,

36 Merland Shelesky (ph). Our subsistence coordinator,

37 Geoff Byersdorf is going to have a detail out of state,

38 and I think he's looking to climb the ranks of the BLM,

39 he's joined a leadership academy and they travel around

40 the nation and get experience in other areas.

41

42 So that's kind of the two staffing

43 areas.

44

45 And also last fall I informed you that

46 Brian Bourdon from my office here in Nome moved on to

47 Anchorage and he left in the fall, and I don't know at

48 this point if they're going to fill that position

49 behind Brian or not.

50

 

158

 

1 I guess the only other thing as far as

2 the subsistence permits and so forth. I just gave out

3 one permit, a muskox permit for 22B. The only other

4 activity that I saw, I've had some phone calls with 22A

5 remainder moose hunt and whether or not a Federal tag

6 was necessary. And there's a difference between the

7 State and Federal seasons, which I'm sure some of you

8 are aware of there.

9

10 I also had one on the Port Clarence

11 Loran Station, whether or not someone could shoot a

12 muskox on that. That land is withdrawn for the Coast

13 Guard. And on a withdrawn land, the withdrawal agency,

14 usually it's the military, not all the times, but

15 usually, or in this case the Coast Guard, so it's the

16 Coast Guard's call on that. So, Elmer, if you've got

17 anybody that's anxious over there, I guess, check with

18 the Coast Guard and I can talk with you after the

19 meeting, if you're interested.

20

21 We haven't had any new special

22 recreation permits being issued on the Seward

23 Peninsula. Same folks as before. If we do get a new

24 one we'll be sure and involve the Council.

25

26 The only other thing to report is the

27 Salmon Lake agreement was reintroduced by Senator

28 Murkowski and Begich and this is the third time for

29 that Legislation. It's passed the House in the past

30 but it never made it through the Senate. So we're

31 hopeful that that'll pass this fiscal year.

32

33 And that concludes my little talk but

34 I'd be happy to answer any questions anybody has.

35

36 MR. SEETOT: Mr. Chair.

37

38 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Go ahead, Elmer.

39

40 MR. SEETOT: In regard to your

41 reference to Coast Guard, the Coast Guard deactivated

42 last year but they still do have a five mile radius

43 around their loran station, which they tumbled to the

44 ground, but it's still active as a Federal land. I

45 might have talked to you or someone in Anchorage

46 concerning artifact digging towards the Coast Guard

47 loran station. A State Trooper in wildlife, or

48 somebody with authority went to Brevig Mission and

49 Teller and talked to those people. I'm not too sure of

50 what effect, like I say, effect, it will have on the

 

159

 

1 residents, because they will go to any extremes to dig

2 for artifacts, and that makes a problem, I think,

3 around that area.

4

5 Just to let you know if -- I do tell

6 them about restrictions on artifacting on Federal,

7 Native and State lands but they still do it anyway.

8 They say that -- that's my land, you don't -- I have

9 lived here a lot more than you have so, you know, stay

10 away from my business, that -- that's what they tell

11 me.

12

13 You know, they use more explicit

14 terms

15

16 (Laughter)

17

18 MR. SEETOT: but, you know, this

19 is real simple.

20

21 (Laughter)

22

23 MR. SEETOT: But -- but that's what

24 I've been trying to tell them anyways, you know, just

25 try -- try -- there's consequences if you do get caught

26 on Federal and State lands if you're not authorized to

27 do so, that's -- that's what I tell them all the time.

28

29 MR. SPARKS: Mr. Seetot, through the

30 Chair. Yes, we spoke last year on that. I went to

31 Teller with representatives of the regional Native

32 Corporation and we had a law enforcement officer and a

33 law enforcement officer from the Coast Guard as well,

34 so it's ongoing. BLM does not have primary

35 jurisdiction at the loran station, that's the Coast

36 Guard and that's because it's withdrawn for their use.

37 Once they're done with that withdrawal, what normally

38 happens is they try to give the land back to BLM and

39 then we make a determination whether or not it's

40 suitable to be back in the public domain. And if it's

41 not suitable then generally what happens is the land

42 gets sold through the Government Services

43 Administration or GSA for short. There's some

44 competing land selections at that area, though, but

45 time will tell how that goes. But, yeah, we're very

46 much aware of the situation for sure.

47

48 CHAIRMAN QUINN: How long has that

49 station been there?

50

 

160

 

1 MR. SEETOT: 1963 it was built because

2 I remember the people that were there that -- that were

3 down there.

4

5 MR. SPARKS: Yeah, the withdrawal's

6 pretty old. I'd have to look at the case file, but

7 certainly our lifetime, I'll say that.

8

9 CHAIRMAN QUINN: '63, well, you can

10 just go dig in their dump and get artifacts then.

11

12 (Laughter)

13

14 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay, anything else

15 for Tom.

16

17 (No comments)

18

19 CHAIRMAN QUINN: It looks like we

20 didn't need the enforcement officer this year, uh, you

21 got less activity.

22

23 MR. SPARKS: I think some of the

24 changes that were made with the C&T certainly didn't

25 make that a necessity or there was some concerns that

26 were brought out a couple years ago.

27

28 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Well, we just want you

29 to catch the illegal guides, we don't care about the

30 C&T part.

31

32 MR. SPARKS: Yeah, we -- there was only

33 -- there was one guide that I'm aware, but it was in

34 the Nugget that he got in some trouble this last year,

35 BLM did not permit them in our area, he was permitted

36 out of the Fairbanks district though.

37

38 And a couple years ago when the

39 Unalakleet moose hunt happened on Federal lands we had

40 an enforcement officer there as well as Geoff Byersdorf

41 and they were there for a couple of weeks and I don't

42 know that that effort will come back because there

43 really wasn't much going on.

44

45 CHAIRMAN QUINN: All right.

46

47 MR. SPARKS: But if there's -- you

48 know, anything concerns anybody as far as BLM I'd

49 welcome a phone call, or at home or it doesn't matter

50 but as long as we're communicating, I'd appreciate it.

 

161

 

1 CHAIRMAN QUINN: Okay. Well, with

2 that, we'll all be back here at 8:30.

3

4 (Off record)

5

6 (PROCEEDINGS TO BE CONTINUED)

 

162

 

1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA )

4 )ss.

5 STATE OF ALASKA )

6

7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and

8 for the state of Alaska and reporter of Computer

9 Matrix, do hereby certify:

10

11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered 02

12 through 163 contain a full, true and correct Transcript

13 of the SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL

14 ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME I taken electronically

15 by our firm on the 15th day of February 2011, beginning

16 at the hour of 8:30 o'clock a.m. at Nome, Alaska;

17

18 THAT the transcript is a true and

19 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and

20 thereafter transcribed under my direction and reduced

21 to print to the best of our knowledge and ability;

22

23 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or

24 party interested in any way in this action.

25

26 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, March 2011.

27

28

29

30 Salena A. Hile

31 Notary Public, State of Alaska

32 My Commission Expires:9/16/2014

33

 

163